Dealer recommendations...input from the hive?

[Neo1738]

Title says it all. A lot of recommended products don't have many reviews or information online except from the supplier which is obviously biased. I'm definitely a techy guy so for me not to be able to find information is a little concerning. Thanks. 

 

Sanus CFR-2144 44U Equipment Rack 
Power Wattbox 700 Series 12 Outlet IP Power Manager with OVRC 
Wattbox 8-Outlet 1500VA UPS with OVRC 
(2) Wattbox 12-Outlet Vertical Rack Strips 

Network

Router Araknis Dual Wan Router with OVRC 
POE Switch Araknis 210 Series 24 Port POE Switch with OVRC 
Switch Araknis 110 Series 24 Port Switch with OVRC
Indoor WIFI (4) Araknis 500 Series Wifi Access Point with OVRC 
Outdoor WIFI (1) Araknis 700 Series Outdoor Wireless Access Point with OVRC 

Lighting Control

Panel Control 4 5-Space Din Panel 
Dimmer Modules (4) Control 4 Adaptive Phase Dimmer Modules 
Relay Module (1) Control 4 Relay Module 
Dim Connecting Block (4) Control 4 Dimmer Connecting Block 
Rel Connecting Block (1) Control 4 Relay Connecting Block
Keypad/Dimmer (25) Control 4 Keypad/Dimmers
Fan Speed Controller (4) Control 4 Fan Controllers 
DMX Flex Tape DMX Controller, Power Supply and Control 4 Driver 

Surveillance

NVR Luma Surveillance 510 Series 8 Channel NVR with 2TB with OVRC
Outdoor Cameras (8) Luma Surveillance 300 Series Bullet Cameras with OVRC 

Audio/Video

Controller Control 4 EA5 Home Controller 
HDMI Matrix Control 4 10x10 HDMI Matrix with Downconvert/Downmix
Audio Matrix Control 4 24-Zone Audio Matrix 
Amplifiers (3) Triad 8-Zone Power Amplifiers 

HVAC

Thermostat (4) Control 4 Thermostat by Aprilaire - 4 zone forced air 3 zones radiant in floor

Infrared Heaters

Power Controller (2) Elk-9200 60Amp 240VAC Relay - My find he said would work

Water Shutoff

Main Dam It 3/4" Starter Kit with 3 Wireless Sensors - house
Sprinkler Dami It 1" Starter Kit with 3 Wireless Sensors - irrigation

Keeping Room

Television Sony XBR65A8F 65" OLED TV 
Mount Strong Mounts Tilting Wall Mount 
Speakers (2) Revel C-263 In Ceiling Speakers 
HDMI to TV Control 4 HD Base T HDMI Balun 
Remote Control Control 4 SR-260 Remote Control 

Kitchen

Speakers (4) Revel C-263 In Ceiling Speakers 
Touchscreen Control 4 10" In Wall Touchscreen Black or White 
LED Flex Tape 20M Colorbeam 24V Flex Tape with Driver - under cabinet lighting

Grand Room

Speakers (4) Revel C-263 In Ceiling Speakers 

Covered Rear Porch

Speakers (2) Revel C363XC Outdoor In Ceiling Speakers 

Master Bed

Television Sony XBR65A8F 65" OLED TV 
Mount Strong Mounts Tilting Wall Mount
Speakers (2) Revel C-263 In Ceiling Speakers 
HDMI to TV Control 4 HD Base T HDMI Balun 
Remote Control Control 4 SR-260 Remote Control 
Touchscreen Control 4 10" In Wall Touchscreen Black or White 

Master Bath

Speakers (2) Revel C-263 In Ceiling Speakers

Dining Room

Speakers (2) Revel C-263 In Ceiling Speakers

Office

Speakers (2) Revel C-263 In Ceiling Speakers

Laundry
Speakers (1) Revel C-263dt In Ceiling Speaker

Front Door/Entrance

Speakers (2) Revel C-263 In Ceiling Speakers
Exterior Doorstation Doorbird Exterior Door Station 

Garage

Speakers (2) Revel C-263 In Ceiling Speakers 
Door Lock Kwikset Door Lock 

Bedroom IV

Television Sony KD55X750F 55" LED TV 
Mount Strong Mounts Tilting Wall Mount 
HDMI to TV Control 4 HD Base T HDMI Balun 
Remote Control Control 4 SR-260 Remote Control 

Bathroom IV
Speakers (1) Revel C-263dt In Ceiling Speaker

Second Floor Hallway

Speakers (2) Revel C-263 In Ceiling Speakers 

LOFT

HDMI to TV Control 4 HD Base T HDMI Balun 
Remote Control Control 4 SR-260 Remote Control 
Speakers (2) Revel C-263 In Ceiling Speakers

Home Theater

Projector Sony VPLVW385ES Projector 
Mount Peerless Precision Projector Mount 
Screen Screen Innovations Zero Edge 140" 16x9 Slate 1.2 Gain 
Receiver Marantz SR-7013 AV Receiver 
HDMI to Projector Clare Control HDMI Balun 
Front Speakers (2) Klipsch Pro-18-RW In Wall Speakers
Center Speakers (1) Klipsch Pro-18-RW In Wall Speaker
Front Atmos (2) Klipsch Pro-18-RC In Ceiling Speakers 
Rear Atmos (2) Klipsch Pro-18-RC In Ceiling Speakers 
Surround Speakers (2) Klipsch Pro-18-RW In Wall Speakers 
Rear Speakers (2) Klipsch Pro-18-RW In Wall Speakers
Subwoofer (2) Origin Acousitcs SubD10EQ 10" DSP Subwoofer
Remote Control Control 4 SR-260 Remote Control
Flex Tape Ceiling 30M Colorbeam 24V Flex Tape with Driver 

Flex Tape Floor 40M Colorbeam 24V Flex Tape with Driver 

Ceiling

Panels/Driver Acoustical Solutions 20'x12' Acoustilite Fiberoptic Ceiling

Bar

Television Sony XBR49X900F 49" TV 
Mount Strong Mounts Tilting Wall Mount 
Speakers (2) Revel C-263 In Ceiling Speakers
HDMI to TV Control 4 HD Base T HDMI Balun 
Remote Control Control 4 SR-260 Remote Control 
Touchscreen Customer Provided IPAD Pro

Poker

Speakers (2) Revel C-263 In Ceiling Speakers

Billiards

Speakers (2) Revel C-263 In Ceiling Speakers 

Exercise

TV Sony KD43X720E 43" Ultra HD LED TV 
Mount Strong Mounts Large Articulating Mount 
HDMI to TV Control 4 HD Base T HDMI Balun 
Remote Control Control 4 SR-260 Remote Control 
Speakers (2) Revel C-263 In Ceiling Speakers

[c4toys]

Depends on who he has installing for him now! Ive seen fair work. I have a few take overs. Can't say plus or minus.

[Neo1738]

21 hours ago, c4toys said:

Depends on who he has installing for him now! Ive seen fair work. I have a few take overs. Can't say plus or minus.

This comment doesn't make sense.

[terminaldisclaimer]

So from my perspective, it depends how much of a tech guy you are. 

For me, I would never let one of these integrators install my core network devices. They might not be happy about it, but given the money this quote must be, I'm sure you could negotiate. Araknis is fine, but it's basically just SnapAV (a favorite integrator distributor)--and you probably won't have much access to it. 

I'd choose Ubiquiti (technically "unsupported" by C4, but you can google around--it's basically bullshit). 

Everything else, is pretty much standard for a C4 installation. I personally hate the C4 thermostats, so you may want to consider whether you'd want to do nest or ecobee (both supported by C4). 

As for in-wall devices, I find that I don't use them that much in my house--so think hard whether you'd really want to spend the money on them. They are cool looking, but ultimately, at least I find, that I don't use them very much. 

Also, an IPAD Pro is a little much for your bar area. Any android or ipad device would do. Dropping 1k for that device is way overkill. 

It also looks like you are going all panelized lighting for your system. Just know what you are getting into for that....It is going to box you in, in what you can do in the future. 

I would also think long and hard about where you want to have extra wires run. Plan a head for that. More Cat 6 won't hurt you. 

Also why an HDBaseT balun in the loft, but no TV?

Finally, I personally like the yale lock better than the kwikset lock. 

[thecodeman]

Don't do the Control4 HDMI matrix in my opinion. AVPro Edge makes a better HDBASET kit with scaling controls and full 4K 60 support.

[lippavisual]

Or go with an IP based matrix.  Boxed HDMI matrices are such a thing of the past. 

[neil12011]

3 hours ago, thecodeman said:

Don't do the Control4 HDMI matrix in my opinion. AVPro Edge makes a better HDBASET kit with scaling controls and full 4K 60 support.

This.

 

1 hour ago, lippavisual said:

Or go with an IP based matrix.  Boxed HDMI matrices are such a thing of the past. 

And This.

 

Someone mentioned in wall touchscreens not being used.  There is some truth to this.  I find that touchscreens get used the most in kitchen areas where the house has distributed audio, which you will have.  We almost always spec a portable or wall mount in the kitchen, just seems to always be the case.  Also, entry/exit point in walls get used a lot.  Other than that, I have to agree. 

[RC11]

Take with a grain of salt, because I’m not a professional. Double check the # of modules necessary & it’s a good idea to have space for future growth. My house is much smaller & I’m currently using twice as many modules ( partially due to the majority being 0-10, requiring relay and 0-10 modules for each load ) 

You may also need to add Bus Ethernet Gateway & Bus Power Supply. 

Good luck & make sure you have a good plan / map of the system. 

 

[Cyknight]

On 11/16/2018 at 1:28 PM, terminaldisclaimer said:

For me, I would never let one of these integrators install my core network devices.

Bad choice. I'm sure you don't like hearing it. But it is. Network is PARAMOUNT to your system working correctly. And no, your network working flawlessly WITHOUT a smart home setup does not mean it's a proper network for a smart home setup.

Mind you i wish the 'average' dealer was better at networking then they are...but still.

On 11/16/2018 at 1:28 PM, terminaldisclaimer said:

I'd choose Ubiquiti (technically "unsupported" by C4, but you can google around--it's basically bullshit).

Not unsupported, they're black listed. It's not BS either, because there are proven scenarios where they cause issues - that said I see more scenarios where they work well.

UBQT has a large fan-base, not without reason, but that isn't a tell-all.

On 11/16/2018 at 1:28 PM, terminaldisclaimer said:

, I personally like the yale lock better than the kwikset lock. 

 

As long as they aren't the touch screen ones....

On 11/16/2018 at 1:28 PM, terminaldisclaimer said:

As for in-wall devices, I find that I don't use them that much in my house--so think hard whether you'd really want to spend the money on them. They are cool looking, but ultimately, at least I find, that I don't use them very much. 

Location, location, location. A well placed wall-screen will see a TON of use. Indeed, myself and many of our clients use it more than anything else - including remote controls in some cases.

 

On 11/16/2018 at 2:52 PM, thecodeman said:

Don't do the Control4 HDMI matrix in my opinion.

I would have to disagree - even MORE so depending on the dealer. I've had zero issues with them to date, but more importantly, they are 100% supported by C4, which to the less experienced dealer is (should be) a huge reason to use them.

On 11/16/2018 at 4:34 PM, lippavisual said:

Boxed HDMI matrices are such a thing of the past. 

Hardly that said JAP is a fantastic product.

 

On 11/16/2018 at 1:28 PM, terminaldisclaimer said:

I personally hate the C4 thermostats, so you may want to consider whether you'd want to do nest or ecobee (both supported by C4). 

They're bulky, but can be hidden. Nest is nowhere near as well integrated. Ecobee is a good choice though, just keep in mind theadded license cost.

On 11/15/2018 at 2:19 PM, Neo1738 said:

I'm definitely a techy guy so for me not to be able to find information is a little concerning.

Keep in mind that a lot of the gear on that list is pro and/or specialty gear. You're not going to find many reviews - and even then they're likely to be unreliable (positive or negative).

 

[msgreenf]

Ecobee is a free driver now

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[Neo1738]

To answer some of the questions. 

1) Yes I am a techy guy

2) I know what panelized lighting is and we understand what that means for the future. 

3) He's running wires to anywhere we want for free. I deleted them for sake of already being a large list of items but integrator running speaker to all rooms and cable/cat6 to all rooms we asked including extra to some basement areas, master bath by tub, etc that we will leave in the wall in case we want to use in the future. He isn't charging for this and told me to add more runs!

4) We are hiding out C4 thermostats and using temperature sensors. Main reason for these over Nest etc is we will have forced air heat/cooling and hydronic heating and will have whole home humidifier. I understand Aprilaire can do just humidity control whereas Nest (which I already own one) won't. 

5) The matrix was a big question of mine. Also the HDBaseT Balun like why would he pick a different Balun for the theater compared to the OLED TVs. Both should be 4k HDR compatible. Nothing will be true uncompressed 4k unless you have fiber for that 18.2 Gbps connection speed. 

6) Ipad Pro would be covered through my work for free...honestly I would probably just get a charging dock for my current 10.1 and take the new Pro for myself My thought though was that for a portable C4 station (want to be able to do doorbell video chat and intercom with) it's cheaper to do an Ipad Pro than the C4 touch screen. 

My question was more about is the Araknis gear at least comparable to the quality of Ubiquity or Cisco which are common? Is the C4 10x10 Video Matrix comparable to others or would JAP be better in this situation? My concern is I will be adding more TVs in the future and will probably surpass the 10 outs when I add a back yard, pool etc. I'm not against adding a 6x6 in a few years for that but wanted to make sure the products chosen are appropriate for the size of the project. Also seemless easy integration is key as my wife is not as techy. 

[msgreenf]

He isn't charging for wiring? That makes no sense

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[tcwalker5]

27 minutes ago, Neo1738 said:

4) We are hiding out C4 thermostats and using temperature sensors. Main reason for these over Nest etc is we will have forced air heat/cooling and hydronic heating and will have whole home humidifier. I understand Aprilaire can do just humidity control whereas Nest (which I already own one) won't. 

I used the C4 thermostats and remote sensors.  I was not informed by my installer that the sensors do not do humidity, they are limited to just temp.  Make sure you get the right sensors.  Also, it is my understanding that the C4 thermostat can only do up to 2 stage cooling.  Make sure you don't have a variable stage HVAC.

[ntlord]

18 hours ago, Cyknight said:

Bad choice. I'm sure you don't like hearing it. But it is. Network is PARAMOUNT to your system working correctly. And no, your network working flawlessly WITHOUT a smart home setup does not mean it's a proper network for a smart home setup.

Mind you i wish the 'average' dealer was better at networking then they are...but still.

Not unsupported, they're black listed. It's not BS either, because there are proven scenarios where they cause issues - that said I see more scenarios where they work well.

UBQT has a large fan-base, not without reason, but that isn't a tell-all.

 

1. If C4 would share more of their network requirements, this would be a non-issue. But it’s yet another dealer-model issue. 

2. Your average dealer point, is basically the point. I don’t trust many dealers with understanding networking better than me. I’m sure some do, but I bet most don’t. So I’d want full access to the configs. That’s why I’d choose networking equipment that isn’t dealer only.

[eggzlot]

3 minutes ago, ntlord said:

1. If C4 would share more of their network requirements, this would be a non-issue. But it’s yet another dealer-model issue. 

2. Your average dealer point, is basically the point. I don’t trust many dealers with understanding networking better than me. I’m sure some do, but I bet most don’t. So I’d want full access to the configs. That’s why I’d choose networking equipment that isn’t dealer only.

I have 100% control of my network?  What’s does the dealer model have to do with my network configuration?

[Neo1738]

1 hour ago, msgreenf said:

He isn't charging for wiring? That makes no sense

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He said it only costs about $20 to run a wire and that he makes enough off equipment/year he doesn't need to charge for it. 

[msgreenf]

That should be a red flag imho.

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[Neo1738]

55 minutes ago, tcwalker5 said:

I used the C4 thermostats and remote sensors.  I was not informed by my installer that the sensors do not do humidity, they are limited to just temp.  Make sure you get the right sensors.  Also, it is my understanding that the C4 thermostat can only do up to 2 stage cooling.  Make sure you don't have a variable stage HVAC.

Not 2 stage but good to know. I'll make sure this is brought up.

[Neo1738]

16 minutes ago, msgreenf said:

That should be a red flag imho.

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He's a Pinnacle and Diamond dealer, have friends that have used him with nothing but great reviews. 

[eggzlot]

21 minutes ago, Neo1738 said:

He said it only costs about $20 to run a wire and that he makes enough off equipment/year he doesn't need to charge for it. 

Cost is baked in there somewhere.  As long as you trust the final price it’s fine 

[Neo1738]

1 minute ago, eggzlot said:

Cost is baked in there somewhere.  As long as you trust the final price it’s fine 

That was my thought. The final price includes the wires bc he makes profit on equipment. That's why I didn't include pricing in this post that wasn't an argument from me. Especially compared to some friends who have C4 installed and comparing. 

[sonic30101]

19 minutes ago, Neo1738 said:

The final price includes the wires bc he makes profit on equipment.

As long as you are cool with the price that is all that matters, but he better be marking up above msrp because dealer markup alone is not enough to throw in prewire/trim for free and if it is for him. Make sure to do your homework on him cause he could be a trunk slammer lol

[Neo1738]

19 minutes ago, sonic30101 said:

As long as you are cool with the price that is all that matters, but he better be marking up above msrp because dealer markup alone is not enough to throw in prewire/trim for free and if it is for him. Make sure to do your homework on him cause he could be a trunk slammer lol

Like I said he's a Pinnacle and Diamond dealer, been around my town for years in the same location. Have friends that have used him, a few builders in the area use him regularly.

[LollerAgent]

45 minutes ago, Neo1738 said:

Like I said he's a Pinnacle and Diamond dealer, been around my town for years in the same location. Have friends that have used him, a few builders in the area use him regularly.

Dealer "class" doesn't really equate to knowledge and trust, in my opinion.

[Neo1738]

Just now, LollerAgent said:

Dealer "class" doesn't really equate to knowledge and trust, in my opinion.

No but it does tell me he does a lot of installations. As mentioned I trust my friends reviews and having seen their systems working flawlessly I like the dealer. He has been very responsive, easy to work with, and has been pretty flexible.