Neo1738 Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 Title says it all. A lot of recommended products don't have many reviews or information online except from the supplier which is obviously biased. I'm definitely a techy guy so for me not to be able to find information is a little concerning. Thanks. Sanus CFR-2144 44U Equipment Rack Power Wattbox 700 Series 12 Outlet IP Power Manager with OVRC Wattbox 8-Outlet 1500VA UPS with OVRC (2) Wattbox 12-Outlet Vertical Rack Strips Network Router Araknis Dual Wan Router with OVRC POE Switch Araknis 210 Series 24 Port POE Switch with OVRC Switch Araknis 110 Series 24 Port Switch with OVRC Indoor WIFI (4) Araknis 500 Series Wifi Access Point with OVRC Outdoor WIFI (1) Araknis 700 Series Outdoor Wireless Access Point with OVRC Lighting Control Panel Control 4 5-Space Din Panel Dimmer Modules (4) Control 4 Adaptive Phase Dimmer Modules Relay Module (1) Control 4 Relay Module Dim Connecting Block (4) Control 4 Dimmer Connecting Block Rel Connecting Block (1) Control 4 Relay Connecting Block Keypad/Dimmer (25) Control 4 Keypad/Dimmers Fan Speed Controller (4) Control 4 Fan Controllers DMX Flex Tape DMX Controller, Power Supply and Control 4 Driver Surveillance NVR Luma Surveillance 510 Series 8 Channel NVR with 2TB with OVRC Outdoor Cameras (8) Luma Surveillance 300 Series Bullet Cameras with OVRC Audio/Video Controller Control 4 EA5 Home Controller HDMI Matrix Control 4 10x10 HDMI Matrix with Downconvert/Downmix Audio Matrix Control 4 24-Zone Audio Matrix Amplifiers (3) Triad 8-Zone Power Amplifiers HVAC Thermostat (4) Control 4 Thermostat by Aprilaire - 4 zone forced air 3 zones radiant in floor Infrared Heaters Power Controller (2) Elk-9200 60Amp 240VAC Relay - My find he said would work Water Shutoff Main Dam It 3/4" Starter Kit with 3 Wireless Sensors - house Sprinkler Dami It 1" Starter Kit with 3 Wireless Sensors - irrigation Keeping Room Television Sony XBR65A8F 65" OLED TV Mount Strong Mounts Tilting Wall Mount Speakers (2) Revel C-263 In Ceiling Speakers HDMI to TV Control 4 HD Base T HDMI Balun Remote Control Control 4 SR-260 Remote Control Kitchen Speakers (4) Revel C-263 In Ceiling Speakers Touchscreen Control 4 10" In Wall Touchscreen Black or White LED Flex Tape 20M Colorbeam 24V Flex Tape with Driver - under cabinet lighting Grand Room Speakers (4) Revel C-263 In Ceiling Speakers Covered Rear Porch Speakers (2) Revel C363XC Outdoor In Ceiling Speakers Master Bed Television Sony XBR65A8F 65" OLED TV Mount Strong Mounts Tilting Wall Mount Speakers (2) Revel C-263 In Ceiling Speakers HDMI to TV Control 4 HD Base T HDMI Balun Remote Control Control 4 SR-260 Remote Control Touchscreen Control 4 10" In Wall Touchscreen Black or White Master Bath Speakers (2) Revel C-263 In Ceiling SpeakersDining Room Speakers (2) Revel C-263 In Ceiling Speakers Office Speakers (2) Revel C-263 In Ceiling Speakers Laundry Speakers (1) Revel C-263dt In Ceiling Speaker Front Door/Entrance Speakers (2) Revel C-263 In Ceiling Speakers Exterior Doorstation Doorbird Exterior Door Station Garage Speakers (2) Revel C-263 In Ceiling Speakers Door Lock Kwikset Door Lock Bedroom IV Television Sony KD55X750F 55" LED TV Mount Strong Mounts Tilting Wall Mount HDMI to TV Control 4 HD Base T HDMI Balun Remote Control Control 4 SR-260 Remote Control Bathroom IV Speakers (1) Revel C-263dt In Ceiling Speaker Second Floor Hallway Speakers (2) Revel C-263 In Ceiling Speakers LOFT HDMI to TV Control 4 HD Base T HDMI Balun Remote Control Control 4 SR-260 Remote Control Speakers (2) Revel C-263 In Ceiling Speakers Home Theater Projector Sony VPLVW385ES Projector Mount Peerless Precision Projector Mount Screen Screen Innovations Zero Edge 140" 16x9 Slate 1.2 Gain Receiver Marantz SR-7013 AV Receiver HDMI to Projector Clare Control HDMI Balun Front Speakers (2) Klipsch Pro-18-RW In Wall Speakers Center Speakers (1) Klipsch Pro-18-RW In Wall Speaker Front Atmos (2) Klipsch Pro-18-RC In Ceiling Speakers Rear Atmos (2) Klipsch Pro-18-RC In Ceiling Speakers Surround Speakers (2) Klipsch Pro-18-RW In Wall Speakers Rear Speakers (2) Klipsch Pro-18-RW In Wall Speakers Subwoofer (2) Origin Acousitcs SubD10EQ 10" DSP Subwoofer Remote Control Control 4 SR-260 Remote Control Flex Tape Ceiling 30M Colorbeam 24V Flex Tape with Driver Flex Tape Floor 40M Colorbeam 24V Flex Tape with Driver Ceiling Panels/Driver Acoustical Solutions 20'x12' Acoustilite Fiberoptic Ceiling Bar Television Sony XBR49X900F 49" TV Mount Strong Mounts Tilting Wall Mount Speakers (2) Revel C-263 In Ceiling Speakers HDMI to TV Control 4 HD Base T HDMI Balun Remote Control Control 4 SR-260 Remote Control Touchscreen Customer Provided IPAD Pro Poker Speakers (2) Revel C-263 In Ceiling Speakers Billiards Speakers (2) Revel C-263 In Ceiling Speakers Exercise TV Sony KD43X720E 43" Ultra HD LED TV Mount Strong Mounts Large Articulating Mount HDMI to TV Control 4 HD Base T HDMI Balun Remote Control Control 4 SR-260 Remote Control Speakers (2) Revel C-263 In Ceiling Speakers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c4toys Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 Depends on who he has installing for him now! Ive seen fair work. I have a few take overs. Can't say plus or minus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo1738 Posted November 16, 2018 Author Share Posted November 16, 2018 21 hours ago, c4toys said: Depends on who he has installing for him now! Ive seen fair work. I have a few take overs. Can't say plus or minus. This comment doesn't make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terminaldisclaimer Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 So from my perspective, it depends how much of a tech guy you are. For me, I would never let one of these integrators install my core network devices. They might not be happy about it, but given the money this quote must be, I'm sure you could negotiate. Araknis is fine, but it's basically just SnapAV (a favorite integrator distributor)--and you probably won't have much access to it. I'd choose Ubiquiti (technically "unsupported" by C4, but you can google around--it's basically bullshit). Everything else, is pretty much standard for a C4 installation. I personally hate the C4 thermostats, so you may want to consider whether you'd want to do nest or ecobee (both supported by C4). As for in-wall devices, I find that I don't use them that much in my house--so think hard whether you'd really want to spend the money on them. They are cool looking, but ultimately, at least I find, that I don't use them very much. Also, an IPAD Pro is a little much for your bar area. Any android or ipad device would do. Dropping 1k for that device is way overkill. It also looks like you are going all panelized lighting for your system. Just know what you are getting into for that....It is going to box you in, in what you can do in the future. I would also think long and hard about where you want to have extra wires run. Plan a head for that. More Cat 6 won't hurt you. Also why an HDBaseT balun in the loft, but no TV? Finally, I personally like the yale lock better than the kwikset lock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecodeman Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 Don't do the Control4 HDMI matrix in my opinion. AVPro Edge makes a better HDBASET kit with scaling controls and full 4K 60 support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lippavisual Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 Or go with an IP based matrix. Boxed HDMI matrices are such a thing of the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil12011 Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 3 hours ago, thecodeman said: Don't do the Control4 HDMI matrix in my opinion. AVPro Edge makes a better HDBASET kit with scaling controls and full 4K 60 support. This. 1 hour ago, lippavisual said: Or go with an IP based matrix. Boxed HDMI matrices are such a thing of the past. And This. Someone mentioned in wall touchscreens not being used. There is some truth to this. I find that touchscreens get used the most in kitchen areas where the house has distributed audio, which you will have. We almost always spec a portable or wall mount in the kitchen, just seems to always be the case. Also, entry/exit point in walls get used a lot. Other than that, I have to agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RC11 Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 Take with a grain of salt, because I’m not a professional. Double check the # of modules necessary & it’s a good idea to have space for future growth. My house is much smaller & I’m currently using twice as many modules ( partially due to the majority being 0-10, requiring relay and 0-10 modules for each load ) You may also need to add Bus Ethernet Gateway & Bus Power Supply. Good luck & make sure you have a good plan / map of the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 On 11/16/2018 at 1:28 PM, terminaldisclaimer said: For me, I would never let one of these integrators install my core network devices. Bad choice. I'm sure you don't like hearing it. But it is. Network is PARAMOUNT to your system working correctly. And no, your network working flawlessly WITHOUT a smart home setup does not mean it's a proper network for a smart home setup. Mind you i wish the 'average' dealer was better at networking then they are...but still. On 11/16/2018 at 1:28 PM, terminaldisclaimer said: I'd choose Ubiquiti (technically "unsupported" by C4, but you can google around--it's basically bullshit). Not unsupported, they're black listed. It's not BS either, because there are proven scenarios where they cause issues - that said I see more scenarios where they work well. UBQT has a large fan-base, not without reason, but that isn't a tell-all. On 11/16/2018 at 1:28 PM, terminaldisclaimer said: , I personally like the yale lock better than the kwikset lock. As long as they aren't the touch screen ones.... On 11/16/2018 at 1:28 PM, terminaldisclaimer said: As for in-wall devices, I find that I don't use them that much in my house--so think hard whether you'd really want to spend the money on them. They are cool looking, but ultimately, at least I find, that I don't use them very much. Location, location, location. A well placed wall-screen will see a TON of use. Indeed, myself and many of our clients use it more than anything else - including remote controls in some cases. On 11/16/2018 at 2:52 PM, thecodeman said: Don't do the Control4 HDMI matrix in my opinion. I would have to disagree - even MORE so depending on the dealer. I've had zero issues with them to date, but more importantly, they are 100% supported by C4, which to the less experienced dealer is (should be) a huge reason to use them. On 11/16/2018 at 4:34 PM, lippavisual said: Boxed HDMI matrices are such a thing of the past. Hardly that said JAP is a fantastic product. On 11/16/2018 at 1:28 PM, terminaldisclaimer said: I personally hate the C4 thermostats, so you may want to consider whether you'd want to do nest or ecobee (both supported by C4). They're bulky, but can be hidden. Nest is nowhere near as well integrated. Ecobee is a good choice though, just keep in mind theadded license cost. On 11/15/2018 at 2:19 PM, Neo1738 said: I'm definitely a techy guy so for me not to be able to find information is a little concerning. Keep in mind that a lot of the gear on that list is pro and/or specialty gear. You're not going to find many reviews - and even then they're likely to be unreliable (positive or negative). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 Ecobee is a free driver now Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo1738 Posted November 18, 2018 Author Share Posted November 18, 2018 To answer some of the questions. 1) Yes I am a techy guy 2) I know what panelized lighting is and we understand what that means for the future. 3) He's running wires to anywhere we want for free. I deleted them for sake of already being a large list of items but integrator running speaker to all rooms and cable/cat6 to all rooms we asked including extra to some basement areas, master bath by tub, etc that we will leave in the wall in case we want to use in the future. He isn't charging for this and told me to add more runs! 4) We are hiding out C4 thermostats and using temperature sensors. Main reason for these over Nest etc is we will have forced air heat/cooling and hydronic heating and will have whole home humidifier. I understand Aprilaire can do just humidity control whereas Nest (which I already own one) won't. 5) The matrix was a big question of mine. Also the HDBaseT Balun like why would he pick a different Balun for the theater compared to the OLED TVs. Both should be 4k HDR compatible. Nothing will be true uncompressed 4k unless you have fiber for that 18.2 Gbps connection speed. 6) Ipad Pro would be covered through my work for free...honestly I would probably just get a charging dock for my current 10.1 and take the new Pro for myself My thought though was that for a portable C4 station (want to be able to do doorbell video chat and intercom with) it's cheaper to do an Ipad Pro than the C4 touch screen. My question was more about is the Araknis gear at least comparable to the quality of Ubiquity or Cisco which are common? Is the C4 10x10 Video Matrix comparable to others or would JAP be better in this situation? My concern is I will be adding more TVs in the future and will probably surpass the 10 outs when I add a back yard, pool etc. I'm not against adding a 6x6 in a few years for that but wanted to make sure the products chosen are appropriate for the size of the project. Also seemless easy integration is key as my wife is not as techy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 He isn't charging for wiring? That makes no senseSent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcwalker5 Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 27 minutes ago, Neo1738 said: 4) We are hiding out C4 thermostats and using temperature sensors. Main reason for these over Nest etc is we will have forced air heat/cooling and hydronic heating and will have whole home humidifier. I understand Aprilaire can do just humidity control whereas Nest (which I already own one) won't. I used the C4 thermostats and remote sensors. I was not informed by my installer that the sensors do not do humidity, they are limited to just temp. Make sure you get the right sensors. Also, it is my understanding that the C4 thermostat can only do up to 2 stage cooling. Make sure you don't have a variable stage HVAC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntlord Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 18 hours ago, Cyknight said: Bad choice. I'm sure you don't like hearing it. But it is. Network is PARAMOUNT to your system working correctly. And no, your network working flawlessly WITHOUT a smart home setup does not mean it's a proper network for a smart home setup. Mind you i wish the 'average' dealer was better at networking then they are...but still. Not unsupported, they're black listed. It's not BS either, because there are proven scenarios where they cause issues - that said I see more scenarios where they work well. UBQT has a large fan-base, not without reason, but that isn't a tell-all. 1. If C4 would share more of their network requirements, this would be a non-issue. But it’s yet another dealer-model issue. 2. Your average dealer point, is basically the point. I don’t trust many dealers with understanding networking better than me. I’m sure some do, but I bet most don’t. So I’d want full access to the configs. That’s why I’d choose networking equipment that isn’t dealer only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggzlot Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 3 minutes ago, ntlord said: 1. If C4 would share more of their network requirements, this would be a non-issue. But it’s yet another dealer-model issue. 2. Your average dealer point, is basically the point. I don’t trust many dealers with understanding networking better than me. I’m sure some do, but I bet most don’t. So I’d want full access to the configs. That’s why I’d choose networking equipment that isn’t dealer only. I have 100% control of my network? What’s does the dealer model have to do with my network configuration? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo1738 Posted November 18, 2018 Author Share Posted November 18, 2018 1 hour ago, msgreenf said: He isn't charging for wiring? That makes no sense Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk He said it only costs about $20 to run a wire and that he makes enough off equipment/year he doesn't need to charge for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 That should be a red flag imho. Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo1738 Posted November 18, 2018 Author Share Posted November 18, 2018 55 minutes ago, tcwalker5 said: I used the C4 thermostats and remote sensors. I was not informed by my installer that the sensors do not do humidity, they are limited to just temp. Make sure you get the right sensors. Also, it is my understanding that the C4 thermostat can only do up to 2 stage cooling. Make sure you don't have a variable stage HVAC. Not 2 stage but good to know. I'll make sure this is brought up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo1738 Posted November 18, 2018 Author Share Posted November 18, 2018 16 minutes ago, msgreenf said: That should be a red flag imho. Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk He's a Pinnacle and Diamond dealer, have friends that have used him with nothing but great reviews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggzlot Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 21 minutes ago, Neo1738 said: He said it only costs about $20 to run a wire and that he makes enough off equipment/year he doesn't need to charge for it. Cost is baked in there somewhere. As long as you trust the final price it’s fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo1738 Posted November 18, 2018 Author Share Posted November 18, 2018 1 minute ago, eggzlot said: Cost is baked in there somewhere. As long as you trust the final price it’s fine That was my thought. The final price includes the wires bc he makes profit on equipment. That's why I didn't include pricing in this post that wasn't an argument from me. Especially compared to some friends who have C4 installed and comparing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic30101 Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 19 minutes ago, Neo1738 said: The final price includes the wires bc he makes profit on equipment. As long as you are cool with the price that is all that matters, but he better be marking up above msrp because dealer markup alone is not enough to throw in prewire/trim for free and if it is for him. Make sure to do your homework on him cause he could be a trunk slammer lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo1738 Posted November 18, 2018 Author Share Posted November 18, 2018 19 minutes ago, sonic30101 said: As long as you are cool with the price that is all that matters, but he better be marking up above msrp because dealer markup alone is not enough to throw in prewire/trim for free and if it is for him. Make sure to do your homework on him cause he could be a trunk slammer lol Like I said he's a Pinnacle and Diamond dealer, been around my town for years in the same location. Have friends that have used him, a few builders in the area use him regularly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LollerAgent Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 45 minutes ago, Neo1738 said: Like I said he's a Pinnacle and Diamond dealer, been around my town for years in the same location. Have friends that have used him, a few builders in the area use him regularly. Dealer "class" doesn't really equate to knowledge and trust, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo1738 Posted November 19, 2018 Author Share Posted November 19, 2018 Just now, LollerAgent said: Dealer "class" doesn't really equate to knowledge and trust, in my opinion. No but it does tell me he does a lot of installations. As mentioned I trust my friends reviews and having seen their systems working flawlessly I like the dealer. He has been very responsive, easy to work with, and has been pretty flexible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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