EA5 vs. Core 5

[drmark12pa]

I'm in the process of adding another controller to my system as I have a rack that runs the house and 1 small rack that will run my theater only.  Currently, the main rack has EA5 controlling the house and also an HC800 both of these controllers feed into 2 separate 8 zone C4amps (2 audio streams to each amp).

My plan is to move the EA5 to the theater to control that area, use a Core5 to run house house, and then get rid of the HC800. 

What is the difference in performance of the EA5 vs. Core5 for speed?  

Since I have over 100 devices in my system, will the Core5 be better for overall performance for the entire house taking the load of what the EA5 is doing now? (I don't notice lag though I know a CA10 would be beneficial I'm trying to keep cost down with the building of the theater right now)

How can I continue to have 2 audio streams to each C4 8zone amp since the Core5 only has 3 audio outputs with RCA cables (the C4 8zone amps don't have digital audio inputs).

[RAV]

30 minutes ago, drmark12pa said:

How can I continue to have 2 audio streams to each C4 8zone amp since the Core5 only has 3 audio outputs with RCA cables (the C4 8zone amps don't have digital audio inputs).

Couple of simple D/A Converters, about $20 each, you'd have 6 audio outputs available (not including the HDMI).

[zaphod]

50 minutes ago, RAV said:

Couple of simple D/A Converters, about $20 each, you'd have 6 audio outputs available (not including the HDMI).

They D/A audio converters don't introduce sync issues, do they?

[Matt Lowe]

the core5 is a pretty good bump in performance over the EA line across the board from what we have seen. As you add more functions to a controller the lower the overall system performance will be. My personal system my ea5 is just there for running the project. The core3 is OSD audio, zigbee, and IO control now and I saw a slight bump in performance removing the more taxing services like OSD off of my ea5.

 

If you want the most flexibility with audio you will want an appropriate size matrix. assuming you dont have any other audio needs you could do a 16x16 to facilitate the c4 amps you have now. but if you have more avrs or other audio zones on top of that you may need a larger one. you could also send digital or analog audio to the avrs and the rest to the matrix as the core 5 as 5 audio outputs easily connected to those types of devices. I would suggest straying from hdmi audio output from any controller as audio sync across multiple zones becomes a bit more difficult.

[RAV]

1 hour ago, zaphod said:

They D/A audio converters don't introduce sync issues, do they?

I've never needed to hookup to two 8 zone amps in that manner, so it's possible, if the amps are laid out as floors, it should be hardly noticeable if any.
Director will allocate with digital first, so I'd say use 1 dig per amp through a D/A, and then the analogs. That way, when starting for a party, the two digitals will be used and thus stay in sync.

[drmark12pa]

2 hours ago, RAV said:

Couple of simple D/A Converters, about $20 each, you'd have 6 audio outputs available (not including the HDMI).

Great idea! Didn't realize they were so inexpensive!

[drmark12pa]

58 minutes ago, Matt Lowe said:

the core5 is a pretty good bump in performance over the EA line across the board from what we have seen. As you add more functions to a controller the lower the overall system performance will be. My personal system my ea5 is just there for running the project. The core3 is OSD audio, zigbee, and IO control now and I saw a slight bump in performance removing the more taxing services like OSD off of my ea5.

 

If you want the most flexibility with audio you will want an appropriate size matrix. assuming you dont have any other audio needs you could do a 16x16 to facilitate the c4 amps you have now. but if you have more avrs or other audio zones on top of that you may need a larger one. you could also send digital or analog audio to the avrs and the rest to the matrix as the core 5 as 5 audio outputs easily connected to those types of devices. I would suggest straying from hdmi audio output from any controller as audio sync across multiple zones becomes a bit more difficult.

I was a bit curious about performance wise if the Core 5 takes over for the EA5 as the primary house controller.  I don't really use on screen navigator at all as I just use my phone and open C4 that way as it's far less cumbersome.

[zaphod]

33 minutes ago, drmark12pa said:

I was a bit curious about performance wise if the Core 5 takes over for the EA5 as the primary house controller.  I don't really use on screen navigator at all as I just use my phone and open C4 that way as it's far less cumbersome.

I don't think very many people use the OSD anymore.  It would be interesting to know if C4 can track how often people access it vs phones, tablets, TS, etc.

[msgreenf]

2 hours ago, zaphod said:

I don't think very many people use the OSD anymore.  It would be interesting to know if C4 can track how often people access it vs phones, tablets, TS, etc.

I don't think you have the data to making assumption like that. Control 4 does have all the analytics

[zaphod]

I don't have the data, but when people post on here they often say things like, I don't care about the OSD as I very rarely use it.

[msgreenf]

7 minutes ago, zaphod said:

I don't have the data, but when people post on here they often say things like, I don't care about the OSD as I very rarely use it.

this forum isn't representative of the c4 user base

[zaphod]

That's very true.  What is your experience for your clients?  What percentage of them use the OSD and has that gone up or down over time?

[South Africa C4 user]

While I don’t use the OSD myself, guests tend to find it the easier way to navigate the system when using our theatre room and it thus annoys me when it is not working properly (as is the case currently thanks to a Core controller issue).

[ROCKIT]

2 hours ago, msgreenf said:

I don't think you have the data to making assumption like that. Control 4 does have all the analytics

Any chance you will share the data? 

I never use the OSD and I don't point out the C4 button to new customers either. 

[msgreenf]

36 minutes ago, ROCKIT said:

Any chance you will share the data? 

I never use the OSD and I don't point out the C4 button to new customers either. 

I don't have the data to share. 

[msgreenf]

2 hours ago, zaphod said:

That's very true.  What is your experience for your clients?  What percentage of them use the OSD and has that gone up or down over time?

It's hot or miss. I have some that swear by it and want it on every tv and most are meh. But the ones that use it can't imagine the system without it

[Control4Savant]

 

2 hours ago, zaphod said:

That's very true.  What is your experience for your clients?  What percentage of them use the OSD and has that gone up or down over time?

Down…very much down. Many that do are older clients. Others get confused in their own habits over the years and believe that  “4 button” a requirement  for system operation.  Most other brands don’t even offer an OSD for a reason. The C4 navi was premium before we all had multiple touch interfaces at our fingertips.

[zaphod]

2 hours ago, Control4Savant said:

 

Down…very much down. Many that do are older clients. Others get confused in their own habits over the years and believe that  “4 button” a requirement  for system operation.  Most other brands don’t even offer an OSD for a reason. The C4 navi was premium before we all had multiple touch interfaces at our fingertips.

That's what I had suspected.  I don't have touchscreens but I have keypads in several rooms set to Watch TV, double click to Watch Netflix, etc.  That's what I generally use to turn on the source that I want.  Then I pick up the remote when it is ready in a few seconds and decide what to watch.  I found this works best, especially when there is a delay between turning on and when the device is ready to accept input.  That is particularly the case with streaming services that take a bit to get up and running.

[ejn1]

I use the OSD 

[Amr]

1 hour ago, ejn1 said:

I use the OSD 

Me too, I use the OSD mainly for security, cams, sensors and one look at lights on the big screen

[Matt Lowe]

I use the OSD for family photos, media thats currently playing, and for specific cameras rather than the entire grid view.

[drmark12pa]

On 1/4/2023 at 11:01 AM, RAV said:

Couple of simple D/A Converters, about $20 each, you'd have 6 audio outputs available (not including the HDMI).

I just noticed an issue that wouldn't allow the digital audio converters to be used with the Control4 amps.  Because the output is digital audio, there doesn't appear to be any way to force the Control4 amp to accept the input as it only uses RCA inputs so at least as far as I can, you cannot make the amp accept a converted digital audio signal from a controller. 

Or would it be possible to feed the digital signal into the converter box (not sure what this would be in the Control4 library) as the destination and then use the converter box as the actual source for the amp?

Any ideas on this?

[RAV]

Driver - AV Pathsetter

[drmark12pa]

Got the digital converter running.  Just curious will using this running out of a digital output still give the best audio resolution (using EA5 digital output) vs say using the HC800 standard RCA outs?

Based on the specs I'm seeing, the newer controllers have built in better audio resolution right off the bat (EA5 is 192 khz 24 bit vs HC800 which is only 44 khz 16 bit) but wondering if using digital converter will in any way degrade the best digital sound resolution.  

Also, to get the full 192 khz do you need to use the digital out vs RCAs?  I can only use RCAs into my C4 8 zone amps of course.

What is the difference between sound resolution out of the digital out vs RCAs on any controller?

A lot of questions hopefully this all makes sense hahah

[Gary Leeds UK]

On 1/5/2023 at 12:10 AM, South Africa C4 user said:

While I don’t use the OSD myself, guests tend to find it the easier way to navigate the system when using our theatre room and it thus annoys me when it is not working properly (as is the case currently thanks to a Core controller issue).

When this starts working get you please advise - Also if we can get 4k CCTV running - My dealer is aware I wish to up grade, but is asking me to hang on because 

of issues with Core Controllers and because I do get a demanding if things do not work !!

 

[msgreenf]

What issues w core controllers?