HALO Touch- how’s it going?

[Cyknight]

9 hours ago, Amr said:

Some pple will always complain regardless of the brand!

...or BECAUSE of the brand

[NYInstallers]

9 hours ago, Amr said:

Some pple will always complain regardless of the brand!

I don't think its a complaint as much as it is a critique. Capturing first impressions of a product is vital to UI/hardware design. The first impressions usually captures the intuitiveness of the design. When we layout light switches in a home - our goal is not to engrave anything- the experience we like to hand over is one that when a child walks into the room they know which button to press without thinking. We attempt to capture the first impressions and make the changes to the switches accordingly.

Being a NEEO user I did not find this to be a smooth transition- I felt that with the NEEO you turn on the TV this way and with the Halo you turn on the TV that way. Completely different experiences and I found the NEEO to be dummy-proof. And in general i am not fond of the icon changes they recently made. Control4 was on to something with the older icons, and ill repeat that i think it was a poor choice to attempt to conform to others. 

And i agree that they will obviously make improvements but I'm sure(i hope) they're looking at these sites and other for input on what changes are important.

Overall C4 is the best system on the market- the simplicity and stability is amazing. I've troubleshooted and work with many systems- none are this good. 

[Cyknight]

21 minutes ago, NYInstallers said:

I don't think its a complaint as much as it is a critique

I don't think his comment was aimed at you.

[CTMatthew]

I agree that I like the way the Halo feels in my hand. Aside from putting the power button in a shed in the backyard it's a very comfortable remote to hold. And at the end of the day it's the new remote for the most stable control system on the market so we're going to like it eventually.

[Control4Savant]

On 8/5/2023 at 5:49 PM, time2jet said:

What’s that saying… someone would “bitch if you hung them with a rotten rope”?

The Halo Platform Touch Remote is the by far the best remote ever released to date in the AV industry. We’re always going to find something we don’t love or we feel is missing, but they didn’t miss too badly here. And I’m sure as new things roll out, the Halo platform will only get better and better. As a dealer I’m not privy to much more than interested end users (outside of Betas with NDAs), but what we have been told is that there is a lot coming to enhance the experience and the Halo Platform remotes are designed with this in mind.

One thing overlooked is that if you use a third-party HomeKit driver setup with a bridge device etc, you can focus on AppleTV and voice control your home via Siri-(ish).

$550/$900 net is a big ask, but if we think about what they asked for the SR platform remotes and reconcile to today’s dollars, it’s not insane.

I’d suggest everyone try just one. I’m terms of touch, I was shipped Silvers only so far, but I think they look fantastic and I’m one to prefer black remotes. I had the Halo tactile day one. Had reasons to complain (WiFi & battery life issues) but FW fixed all of them. I do miss the 3 customs on the tactile they didn’t carry over to the Touch, but a few experience buttons favorited works.

All in all, I’m sure there has never been a better remote launched by anyone to date.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Please tell me how you justify being “by far the best remote ever in the industry” when it’s full of features already done by 3 other brands for years and features absolutely nothing new or cutting edge…. 

[Control4Savant]

3 hours ago, Cyknight said:

...or BECAUSE of the brand

No see.. I dont care about brands. Thats why you guys are adorable. 

[Cyknight]

3 hours ago, Control4Savant said:

No see.. I dont care about brands. Thats why you guys are adorable. 

I wasn't pointing to you specifically mate, take a breather.

[BY96]

7 hours ago, CTMatthew said:

I agree that I like the way the Halo feels in my hand. Aside from putting the power button in a shed in the backyard it's a very comfortable remote to hold. And at the end of the day it's the new remote for the most stable control system on the market so we're going to like it eventually.

I am actually finding myself liking the placement of the off button... Whenever I have the remote in the charger, it is easier to press a button on the top than on the face. 

[Control4Savant]

2 hours ago, Cyknight said:

I wasn't pointing to you specifically mate, take a breather.

Oh i’m chill but yes, after the Savant comments I took that directed my way. 

[MikeK]

On 8/5/2023 at 2:49 PM, time2jet said:

One thing overlooked is that if you use a third-party HomeKit driver setup with a bridge device etc, you can focus on AppleTV and voice control your home via Siri-(ish).

I'm not sure if I understood this comment correctly. Do you mean that if you have a HomeKit driver set up that it's possible to use the voice command button on the remote to route commands to Siri that way?

[cnicholson]

1 hour ago, MikeK said:

Do you mean that if you have a HomeKit driver set up that it's possible to use the voice command button on the remote to route commands to Siri that way

The way the DTI Homekit/Siri drivers work is that you sort of "Publish" (or "expose") C4 devices (or virtual devices) to Homekit, so in your Home app on iPhone, your C4 lights appear and your can control them on iPhone.  There's really nothing "Siri" about these solutions on the C4 side.  On the Apple/Homekit side, Siri voice control can interact with most Homekit stuff-- it just so happens, that that includes the C4 devices in their Homekit mirrored incarnation.   So you put a HomePod in the same Homekit room as you put your virtual C4 devices and you can tell your HomePod "Hey Siri, turn on the lights" and it will dutifully turn on the C4 lights *in that room* (kinda like Josh).  So far so good?   Now pretend you don't have a HomePod in that room, but you have an Apple TV.   With native silver AppleTV remote, you can press the voice/Siri button and say "Turn on the lights."  Boom.  Works.

Now, turning to Halo, the voice button (when targeting Apple TV) is exactly the same as native Apple TV remote.  So you can grab your Halo, press voice button, and say "Turn on the lights" and it just works.  Get it?

I mean, you need to have Halo in hand and the TV needs to be ON and "Watching" Apple TV--- although guess technically your TV doesn't need to be on, just Apple TV.  Or you can just put a $100 HomePod in rooms where you want voice control.  That's what I did.  If you don't need location awareness, you can always just specify the room "Het Siri, turn on lights in Great Room" for example.  Or just use Siri on Apple Watch, iPhone, Mac, etc. (those devices are never room location "aware")

 

[MikeK]

All of that makes perfect sense. I'm familiar with how the existing HomeKit integration works (although your excellent summary is appreciated!) -- I've been using the Varietas driver for awhile for HomeKit integration at home, and I'm currently trying out the one from Finite Labs to see if it's worth switching.

The one thing I'm not sure I understand is you said, "(when targeting Apple TV)". Does that mean that you have to have the Apple TV selected as your current source in that room? Or is there a way to tell the Halo to always send commands to a specific Apple TV, even if the room is "off"?

[cnicholson]

8 minutes ago, MikeK said:

is there a way to tell the Halo to always send commands to a specific Apple TV, even if the room is "off"?

Not that I'm aware of.  It's probably not a "feature" that would have occurred to anyone.  I guess you could, in programming, on Room Off, select Apple TV in that room, wait a bit and turn off the TV and mute the volume or something kludgy like that.   If you have an extra or old Apple TV around, I guess you could just leave it plugged in somewhere and use that (I guess you'd have to be able to programmatically switch the room Halo is controlling).

But what's the real use case?   You're much more likely to always have Apple Watch or iPhone with you versus carry around the Halo, right?

To be clear: Halo voice must be targeted at a specific Apple TV that is the active source for voice to be sent to it.

[MikeK]

Yeah, I was just trying to understand how it works exactly, since I don't have a Halo yet. (Trying to decide between touch and non-touch...)

I can certainly (and do) use my phone or especially my watch for this purpose today. I also have a HomePod (original big one) in my kitchen, and I really like the ease of just speaking to the room and having it respond. I also like how the Siri stuff is smart enough to resolve ambiguity by assuming you meant to do something in that room (e.g. "lights off" turns off the lights in that room). I will probably eventually put a HomePod in each of my main rooms. I would have done so already, but I'm not that impressed with the HomePod Mini, so I'm hoping for a new version that's closer to the original in terms of fidelity.

Thanks for the information!

[Topfox]

Personally after playing with both a Touch and a Non Touch I think I like the non touch better. I was a huge fan of the SR260s, so maybe that’s why, but notice some of what others have mentioned when trying a touch. Response time seems slower after selecting things, have to push the buttons harder for it to recognize a button press. We will see how it goes after some firmware updates though. 

[cnicholson]

Got my first Touch this morning.   Love the smaller size.  My biggest first impression complaint is that the UI is "mandatory touch."   Coming from hard button Halo (I will have a mix of the types), I would prefer it if I could use the D-Pad to navigate sub menus and make selections (like on non-touch).   Right now, the D-Pad is "locked" to transport controls (and I see the argument for that), but having an option to have a mode making it more consistent between Touch/Non-Touch would avoid frustration, IMHO.   Obviously, I'm not saying touch interface should ever be disabled in any mode--- just have an option to use D-Pad for navigation in certain contexts.

[MikeK]

7 minutes ago, cnicholson said:

Got my first Touch this morning.   Love the smaller size.  My biggest first impression complaint is that the UI is "mandatory touch."   Coming from hard button Halo (I will have a mix of the types), I would prefer it if I could use the D-Pad to navigate sub menus and make selections (like on non-touch).   Right now, the D-Pad is "locked" to transport controls (and I see the argument for that), but having an option to have a mode making it more consistent between Touch/Non-Touch would avoid frustration, IMHO.   Obviously, I'm not saying touch interface should ever be disabled in any mode--- just have an option to use D-Pad for navigation in certain contexts.

Appreciate that feedback. I saw a YouTube video on the Techthusiasm channel where he demoed the remote, and this was the first thing that struck me as well. It seems like it will turn a lot of one-hand, no-look operations into two-hand, eyes-down operations. For example, with my SR-250, I know that if I want to select a particular source, I can click the Watch button (by feel), then down three times and select. I believe the non-touch Halo can do the same. I really hope they change that behavior on the Touch.

[Time2Jet]

I think more than anything, the issue everyone is having with SR/Neeo/Halo/Touch remotes is just the inconsistencies in how they operate. Is that a reason to complain? I’m not sure anymore. For the foreseeable future, C4 is offering all 4 to dealers (albeit, most dealers try to limit offerings to the current direction unless the client requests otherwise). I think my biggest issue is that Halo isn’t really a consistent platform, considering the Tactile & Touch versions work differently. It takes a minute to adjust if you have both in different rooms of your home. That’s my biggest gripe, but I’m glad to be complaining. I still think they are fantastic remotes (other than us all being spoiled by the SR & Neeo battery life). But if you consider your phone goes on a charger nightly, it’s to a degree, expected.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MikeK]

Exactly. I think, given the cost of the Touch remote in particular, it will be unrealistic for many people to put one in every room. But you might want one in a main zone while you could have a regular Halo in a less-used zone. If they behave totally differently, that's an impediment. Such a shame, because to look at them, they have been designed in such a way as to readily transfer a user's habits from one to another, given how the button layouts on the Touch follow the ones on the non-touch Halo. Perhaps we'll hear some news at CEDIA. I hope Control4 will get this feedback a lot at the show.

[cnicholson]

I assume they are working on it, but, without live camera viewing and intercom capability, I'm not seeing the reason to pay up for the Touch.   It's over kill for TV control, so, IMHO, it needs to come pretty close to what iOS app can do.  

So far, the "kill feature" of the touch is just its compact size.   Give me a "Halo Lite" with the keypad from the Touch and the screen from the hard button!

[Double D]

I can’t believe there are complaints about two different category of remotes operating in two different ways.  These are two different remotes to give us two distinct different options. Does anyone realize how confusing it would be for the average user to have the navigation pad operate in two different ways?  That would be a disaster…

[MikeK]

3 minutes ago, Double D said:

I can’t believe there are complaints about two different category of remotes operating in two different ways.  These are two different remotes to give us two distinct different options. Does anyone realize how confusing it would be for the average user to have the navigation pad operate in two different ways?  That would be a disaster…

Not sure what you mean exactly about "hav[ing] the navigation pad operate in two different ways". That's exactly the situation today if you switch between those two remotes, and you're quite right, it's confusing.

[Double D]

6 minutes ago, MikeK said:

Not sure what you mean exactly about "hav[ing] the navigation pad operate in two different ways". That's exactly the situation today if you switch between those two remotes, and you're quite right, it's confusing.

Having the nav pad on the Touch sometimes operate the source, and other times operate the menu on the Halo screen.  That’s what has been asked for, correct?

 

I don’t believe these remotes have been marketed to be mixed and matched in a home. You sure could do that if you want. So I wouldn’t say that it’s a design flaw if this particular function operates differently on the two remotes. 
 

That’s like saying, “I love the way I can just throw stuff in the back of my pickup truck, but I hate the way I have to open the trunk lid in my car to accomplish the same thing!  So inconsistent. Way to drop the ball, Chevy!”

 

If that bothers you, just buy two pickup trucks…

[chopedogg88]

I would lose my mind if the D-pad operated the touchscreen...that would be extremely confusing.

[cnicholson]

The two devices look very similar, are clearly part of a series of devices and the buttons are literally identical and, in that D-Pad zone, are identically arranged.  I don't think that it's a stretch to suggest that the behavior be consistent, at least when submenus are on the display.  I would not expect people with lots of TVs (I have 20) to go for the much more expensive Touch variant everywhere when the hard button would be perfect for bedrooms.

Anyway, I shared my initial impressions.  The best fix for *me* is for my brain to adapt, but I have a decent sense of what will be confusing for family/guests. And this feels like one of those cases.   

As I suggested, perhaps the best approach would a tick box "Lock D-Pad to Transport"  done and done.   I'm probably not thinking through all the implications and maybe this idea is dumb.  But I'm not the only one to flag the issue.