Replacing Araknis hardware with Ubiquiti

[pinkoos]

My local Microcenter seems to have adequate stock of Ubiquiti items to make replacing my Araknis hardware a local affair (ie, no need to order online, etc.)

https://www.microcenter.com/search/search_results.aspx?N=0&NTX=mode+MatchPartial&NTT=ubiquiti&NTK=all&sortby=match&rpp=96

I'm looking to do a one to one switch out of each component so looking for guidance on what Ubiquiti component to pick for each one of the following Araknis network components

Thank you in advance

AN-210-SW-F-16-POE

AN-310-SW-R-24

AN-310-RT-4L2W

AN-500-AP-I-AC x 4

WATTBOX WB-700-IPV-12 (not Araknis of course, but wondering if OvrC feature will still work without Araknis components, also I'm not sure if there's an analogous component made by Ubiquiti)

Cameras x 5 (currently using Amcrest, but thinking of swapping them all out for Ubiquiti and considering the G4 bullet at $200 each) - so what Ubiquiti component would I need to serve as the NVR / DVR if that functionality is not built in to one of your suggestions to replace the above already?

[cnicholson]

I have a full Ubiquiti network and I like it, although I still suspect that some of my Neeo/Halo issues might be due to UniFi WiFi (not sure, and the latest Halo firmware seems to have fixed things.  TBD).

I guess I would start with: what has changed that makes you want to do the swap?   I would start from your requirements/expansion plans and build a system around that.  The core of a Ubiquiti set up is usually one of their Dream Machine "God Box" (Acts as management console, WAN Router, dual-WAN failover, VoiP controller, firewall, WiFi controller, PoE ports, CCTV controller, NVR, physical access controls, etc.).   Pick the one that suites your needs.   You'd probably want to add a main switch to add more PoE (and general) ports.

Things to keep in mind: 

1.  If you plan on using the Dream Machine's built-in advanced firewall/filtering (not really "advanced," compared to real enterprise box, but has some good functionality), make sure you get one that can support your WAN connection at "line speed" with all filters running.  If you have multi-gig ISP, you probably want a higher-end model.  Ditto with dual-WAN, some boxes do not support dual multi-gig WANs at line speed-- which kind of defeats the point of dual-WAN.

2.  If you are going with WiFi 6E, make sure you have a 10G backbone connecting your Dream Machine and your main switch and that your main switch has 2.5G PoE ports with enough PoE power to support 6E WAPs.

3.  Although some Dream Machines have built-in NVR and empty HD/SSD port for storage, I think the NVR features are pretty basic-- and I'm not sure how easy (possible?) it is to integrate with C4 for event triggers, etc.  Check into this if that is something you need.   I assume, but am not sure, that the Ubiquiti cameras can just talk directly to C4 via ONVIF/RTSP-- so maybe that's good enough (live views from C4).  I found their cameras to be pricey compared to LTS, etc.  But I don't use Dream Machine for NVR.

4.  If you want to do 10G wired client connections, obviously get a main switch (or smaller switch just for 10G) to enable that (assuming your Cat cables support that).  

Good luck!  

[DanITman]

6 hours ago, cnicholson said:

3.  Although some Dream Machines have built-in NVR and empty HD/SSD port for storage, I think the NVR features are pretty basic-- and I'm not sure how easy (possible?) it is to integrate with C4 for event triggers, etc.  Check into this if that is something you need.   I assume, but am not sure, that the Ubiquiti cameras can just talk directly to C4 via ONVIF/RTSP-- so maybe that's good enough (live views from C4).  I found their cameras to be pricey compared to LTS, etc.  But I don't use Dream Machine for NVR.

4.  If you want to do 10G wired client connections, obviously get a main switch (or smaller switch just for 10G) to enable that (assuming your Cat cables support that).  

Good luck!  

The NVR on the dream machine is great.  The whole Unifi protect experience is way better then the Chinese NVRs.  The DC driver allows you to integrate the smart detections (people, cars).  You can limit your notifications based on when you are home or away.  Its really turning out to be a great system and improvements and features continue to be released  monthly.

I'm not sure on the need for 10G.  The only real application I've seen for 10G in residential is the new SDVOE devices.  MXNET 10G requires 10G networks to work.  I only have 10G as a backbone between my switches as Unifi made that easy with 10G SFP+ ports.  I know I'm not even coming close to reaching the 1G limits. 

[TundraSonic]

I would not look at a device by device replacement but rather start with your requirements and build a new system from there. Some good advice from @cnicholson.  

Wattbox s/b fine. I've used them w/ UI systems.

I would not use the UI NVR capability. Separate dedicated boxes for each function increases reliability (and UI capabilities are limited). UI cameras were once proprietary as well which is not good, are they still? Our go to is Security Spy on a Mac mini (or Studio) with Dahau cameras.

Note that UI SW/FW updates can be very buggy. Shouldn't be a problem for a smaller simply system but if you do a lot of LAGs, special routing or rely on Radius then something to watch out for. And sadly there is no bug/issue tracker so you have to wade through gobs of posts to guesstimate if you'll be affected or not.  UI is a good value for what you get but this can require some extra time and frustration.

 

 

[CTMatthew]

One thing about UniFi switches is they have lower PoE budgets than Araknis so be mindful if you have a lot of PoE needs outside of the UniFi system itself. They're usually adequate for their own APs and some cameras, but it could mean the difference in choosing between the regular switch and the pro version (where there's no 16 port available).

The Dream Machine Pro is beyond adequate for home use and if you're at all savvy you'll be able to appreciate the "single pane of glass" view of your network. I'm able to get to the bottom of network issues very quickly because I don't have to log in and out of half a dozen boxes to figure out what's going on.

[pinkoos]

Thank you everyone for the responses

Still thinking this through

My dealer is not as familiar with Ubiquiti and is suggesting I consider Eero if I want to replace my network hardware - I don't know much about Eero so will look into that as well

@TundraSonic I'm actually using SecuritySpy with an always on Mac mini with Amcrest cameras - it's rare to run into someone else who knows about SS!

I love SS but was just thinking if I do make the switch to Ubiquiti it would be nice to have everything (ie, including the cameras) on a single platform

I have one Unifi camera (G3 Flex) that I have on SS as well

[msgreenf]

what is your goal?  Why are you looking to replace Araknis?

[CTMatthew]

I would not use Eero.

[Cyknight]

Indeed, WHY are you replacing it. The router shouldn't be a concern as such, the switches are perfectly fine...the only thing rather outdated is the 500 series wifi.

I wouldn't use ubiquiti myself but have no big grief with it...but I'd stay away from Eero.

[pinkoos]

We have very little C4 hardware left in our setup (one HC800, an amp and some dimmers and 3 / 6 button keypads)

Just curious why the hesitation about Eero? Is it that it doesn't play well with C4? Or some other reason?

Thank you

[pinkoos]

@TundraSonic I was looking for one to one replacements as I don't really know much about Ubiquiti in terms of their hardware, that is why I was asking that, "If I have this Araknis component, what Ubiquiti component would replace it."

 

[Control4Savant]

28 minutes ago, pinkoos said:

@TundraSonic I was looking for one to one replacements as I don't really know much about Ubiquiti in terms of their hardware, that is why I was asking that, "If I have this Araknis component, what Ubiquiti component would replace it."

 

Ubiquiti has enterprise networking capabilities pretty much across the board… at a price noticeably better than most. 

Eero is consumer grade networking equipment with an intuitive and setup friendly app and mostly plug and play components. It will have some limitations from an advanced network perspective and can be problematic with certain advanced C4 features but in most cases  it works just fine. 

Araknis is an AV networking brand. They fall in the middle providing more pro/enterprise style gear with simple UIs, performance stats and features. Their newer equipment finally has some more powerful hardware and basic things like firewall rules we expect on expensive routers. Ovrc management and Snap service is definitely its biggest strength.

 

1 hour ago, CTMatthew said:

One thing about UniFi switches is they have lower PoE budgets than Araknis so be mindful if you have a lot of PoE needs outside of the UniFi system itself. They're usually adequate for their own APs and some cameras, but it could mean the difference in choosing between the regular switch and the pro version (where there's no 16 port available).

 

A USW-Pro-24-POE (400W) is 1/3rd the cost of a Araknis 310 Series 24port. It’s L3 and has 25 more watts. 

 

[tmj4]

1 minute ago, Control4Savant said:

Absolutely not. USW-Pro-24-POE (400W) is a 1/3rd the cost of a Araknis 310 Series 24port. It’s L3 and has 25 more watts. 

Agreed...they have some beefy budgets these days at a good cost. Plus there really shouldn't be too much requiring that much power anymore. PoE has gotten quite a bit more efficient in last 5 years.

 

1 hour ago, pinkoos said:

My dealer is not as familiar with Ubiquiti and is suggesting I consider Eero if I want to replace my network hardware

Likely is suggesting since besides Araknis and Pakedge it is one of the only other brands of networking gear for him to get from Snap.

[CTMatthew]

33 minutes ago, pinkoos said:

We have very little C4 hardware left in our setup (one HC800, an amp and some dimmers and 3 / 6 button keypads)

Just curious why the hesitation about Eero? Is it that it doesn't play well with C4? Or some other reason?

Thank you

It's just a janky product. I know that's not technical, but it's a good description of how we'd describe them after years of second, third, and fourth chances. They just have too many problems, and unlike enterprise systems have very little recourse to fix them. 

[pinkoos]

Ah, that's interesting to know, I didn't realize Snap sells Eero - I thought they were Araknis and Pakedge only

That's a very juicy tidbit of info....

[Control4Savant]

1 minute ago, CTMatthew said:

It's just a janky product. I know that's not technical, but it's a good description of how we'd describe them after years of second, third, and fourth chances. They just have too many problems, and unlike enterprise systems have very little recourse to fix them. 

Biggest issue with pros using consumer stuff… it’s difficult and a lot of times specifically designed not to be serviced. 

[CTMatthew]

I'm very pro-Ubiquiti. It's really the only networking gear I'd use in a residential deployment, but I'm also curious why you'd want to pull apart what's basically a current Araknis system. I agree the APs could probably stand replacement if they've given you some problems, but otherwise you've got a pretty good system in place. Don't get me wrong I think Ubiquiti is easier in the long run, but your costs are sunk at this point!

[Control4Savant]

1 minute ago, pinkoos said:

Ah, that's interesting to know, I didn't realize Snap sells Eero - I thought they were Araknis and Pakedge only

That's a very juicy tidbit of info....

They are a distributor. They own Araknis, Pakedge and Access. 

[CTMatthew]

7 minutes ago, Control4Savant said:

Biggest issue with pros using consumer stuff… it’s difficult and a lot of times specifically designed not to be serviced. 

Eero appears designed not to work.

[cnicholson]

2 hours ago, pinkoos said:

 I'm actually using SecuritySpy with an always on Mac mini with Amcrest cameras - it's rare to run into someone else who knows about SS!

Ditto.  I really like SecuritySpy.  My comments about not being a fan of Ubiquiti NVR were in reference to SS versus Ubiquiti.  Although this was a couple of years ago that I tried it, so maybe it's a lot better now.   The Apple Silicon Macs with HW Codec acceleration can deal with A LOT of cameras at 4K without complaining.   I don't know how much juice the Dream Machines have in that regard, so you might want to confirm that your cameras (at resolution / settings / features you want) won't put too much strain on the Dream Machine.   One thing that would be hard for me to give up is the AppleTV client for SS.  I use this often.

As I have noted elsewhere, I use the SS Homekit integration to throw alerts (e.g., if a vehicle (but not other motion) appears on driveway, flip a switch in Homekit).  Then I use a C4/Homekit driver to pick up that alert on the Homekit side and I fire off an "open gate" command.  Not sure how this would work with UniFi. 

[RAV]

Eero is designed for dummies. And as such when you need it to do something some engineer decided no one needs, then you're stuck and have to rip it out.
It's all good until it bites you, and in many projects it may behave, or it could be when you get a new widget and find it just wont work on their platform, or suddenly start having issues you never had after an update.
Dealers once bitten, don't go back.

Replace your APs. Ubiquiti or Ruckus Unleashed.
If you don't want to be your own system admin with Ubiquiti, maybe it's time your dealer takes a serious look at Ruckus.

[Gary Leeds UK]

Ruckus ~ is just brilliant 

[msgreenf]

You still haven't answered why you are replacing 

[Cyknight]

3 hours ago, tmj4 said:

PoE has gotten quite a bit more efficient in last 5 years.

Yeah that's why we have poE+ and PoE++ ....

11 minutes ago, msgreenf said:

You still haven't answered why you are replacing 

Exactly. Regardless of cost for new equipment or not - just based on what you have there is no REASON to replace any of it.

Again I suspect most likely issue is wifi/coverage, and that's fine and can be replaced, but why would you spend money on replacing things that don't need to. So either tells us why you're replacing...or come out and state tht you've got an araknis quote and are looking to lower the budget if that's what you're doing (which is a perfectly fine thing to want to do)

[pinkoos]

Thanks again for all the responses

We've had on again and off again wifi issues for awhile now so that is one reason - to hopefully blanket the house with better wifi coverage

Another reason is a few ports on the switch (POE switch) have died - I guess got fried somehow but I'm not sure

So, instead of getting another Araknis POE, I'm thinking this may be an opportunity to just change out the whole system to newer hardware from a different company

I'm possibly combining this network upgrade with more A/V upgrades (new TV in our 'media' room, different audio solution, etc.) so would like to do it all in one fell swoop rather than doing the A/V upgrade and then later on the network, etc.