Composer HE

[E Price]

I just found out after having c4 for three years about Composer HE. I've asked my dealer to give me a subscription so I can manage some of my own settings etc. He is telling me that composer he is a nightmare and referred to it as a dumpster fire and instead gave me access to his Pro account which I thought was quite surprising. Is anybody else having issues with Composer HE? Can anyome find a reaaon why my dealer doesnt want to sign me up for it? I'm sick of having all sorts of"bugs" all the time and not knowing whether my issues are really being addressed or not. Hellllp!

[eggzlot]

6 minutes ago, E Price said:

I just found out after having c4 for three years about Composer HE. I've asked my dealer to give me a subscription so I can manage some of my own settings etc. He is telling me that composer he is a nightmare and referred to it as a dumpster fire and instead gave me access to his Pro account which I thought was quite surprising. Is anybody else having issues with Composer HE? Can anyome find a reaaon why my dealer doesnt want to sign me up for it? I'm sick of having all sorts of"bugs" all the time and not knowing whether my issues are really being addressed or not. Hellllp!

that is rather shocking.  HE is just Composer Pro "Lite" if you will.  So if he said HE is a dumpster fire, Pro would be a dumpster fire with more gasoline poured on top

His logic, to me, makes zero sense.  And I think he can lose his dealership if he gives you Pro and is caught

For you, its a win since you can do anything you want.

Word of caution, for Pro or HE, before you make any changes, make a backup of the project, then program away and save again.  this way if you mess up, you have an older state to revert/reload.

[msgreenf]

the dumpster fire isn't the software...its the person using it...

[Andrew luecke]

If I were you, I'd run far away and hide, and report that dealer to C4 (as well as change the dealer on your account). It actually violates their dealer agreement too.

If he's giving you access to Pro, it also likely means he's possibly accidentally given you access to his other customers too. You also need to wonder how many other people he's given access of your account to (so, especially if you have any security devices on your system, its not good).

HE is basically Pro, but without the ability to add drivers, and to mess with connections. ie, basically stuff which should only happen at install time anyway

Most issues I've seen on systems come down to bad network in general. Having auto-updates turned off can also reduce the risks of issues too in some cases.

[Andrew luecke]

Btw, just to emphasise how bad this is, if he's giving other customers access to various customer accounts, it's potentially a SERIOUS security issue.

[penn65000]

45 minutes ago, E Price said:

I just found out after having c4 for three years about Composer HE. I've asked my dealer to give me a subscription so I can manage some of my own settings etc. He is telling me that composer he is a nightmare and referred to it as a dumpster fire and instead gave me access to his Pro account which I thought was quite surprising. Is anybody else having issues with Composer HE? Can anyome find a reaaon why my dealer doesnt want to sign me up for it? I'm sick of having all sorts of"bugs" all the time and not knowing whether my issues are really being addressed or not. Hellllp!

I have composer HE and it is very good. I have programmed in the past which helps. It isn’t intuitive but once you get the hang of it it is quite handy. 

[ejn1]

OP is just creating a bs post to stir the crowd. 

[E Price]

34 minutes ago, ejn1 said:

OP is just creating a bs post to stir the crowd. 

 

35 minutes ago, ejn1 said:

OP is just creating a bs post to stir the crowd. 

Im not sure who OP is, but if you meant EP, i.e. me I promise you I am not. I have had three years of hell and thought it was C4 all this time,  until I found and consulted with another dealer. I'm just trying to figure out how bad this situation is and now I see. Ive spent over 100k on my smart home components and have dealt with nothing but issues and am just now figuring out what the real probelm is. Im fairly tech savvy and now realize its not me nor my equipment after getting everyones input. This has been EXTREMELY helpful and liberating.  Thanks everyone. 

[E Price]

3 hours ago, eggzlot said:

that is rather shocking.  HE is just Composer Pro "Lite" if you will.  So if he said HE is a dumpster fire, Pro would be a dumpster fire with more gasoline poured on top

His logic, to me, makes zero sense.  And I think he can lose his dealership if he gives you Pro and is caught

For you, its a win since you can do anything you want.

Word of caution, for Pro or HE, before you make any changes, make a backup of the project, then program away and save again.  this way if you mess up, you have an older state to revert/reload.

Thank you

[E Price]

3 hours ago, Andrew luecke said:

Btw, just to emphasise how bad this is, if he's giving other customers access to various customer accounts, it's potentially a SERIOUS security issue.

Thank you. Thats what I thot

[E Price]

3 hours ago, penn65000 said:

I have composer HE and it is very good. I have programmed in the past which helps. It isn’t intuitive but once you get the hang of it it is quite handy. 

Thank you. I have a little programming background so Im hoping to be able to transition easy....I am feeling so stupid letting it go this long.  Thanks for input. 

[E Price]

Thank you. I have a little programming background so Im hoping to be able to transition easy....I am feeling so stupid letting it go this long. Thanks for input. 

 

*disclaimer* i have only just now joined this group so I have no idea if my responses were making it to the author of each input so I copied and pasted here. 

Im a bit of a virgin when it comes to these forums. Sorry

[RAV]

Dealer may be concerned you'll see the mess he made.

Composer HE can be added to your account by another dealer, several here may be willing to assist.
The installing dealer may change his warranty position and blame stuff on your changes, just be aware some dealers are bad.
Backup so you can revert. Keep a log of your changes if you're a newbie to programming, start slow.
It's a one time purchase, a code is added to your account to use to login to the software, a dealer can see if you have a license for HE as it's noted in the account.

[E Price]

Thank you so much I REALLY appreciate your advice and insight. I'm seeking out another dealer now that is here locally.  

[ChzBurger]

Both programs are dumpster fires of a legacy system (too harsh?). They work, but are not pretty. The hardest part about programming/configuring C4 is figuring where to go in the layers of enhancements added over time to find stuff. If you use it regularly you'll build up your muscle memory. 

[Cyknight]

17 minutes ago, ChzBurger said:

Both programs are dumpster fires of a legacy system (too harsh?).

They're hardly dumpster fires at all, especially compared to some of the other similar systems out there. It's stable, functional and reliable. They can certainly feel a bit old fashioned compared to your average phone app in how it works (say Bond or even Hue apps).

 

Pretty? No.

Customer(light user) friendly? Not really.

Does it do what it is intended to do and do it reliably? Yup.

 

[Matt Lowe]

It's the same program that your dealer is using to program your system. unless he is exclusively using express and that is a dumpster fire. Composer home just has the pro features striped away otherwise it is nearly the same program. Yes, you can use other tools like When Then and even more options in the c4 app allow you to customize things on the fly which is awesome. If you or anyone else would like to know more about how to use Composer Home and everything that you can do check out our training course.

https://www.patreon.com/waltstv

 

[TundraSonic]

On 11/9/2023 at 11:20 AM, Cyknight said:

They're hardly dumpster fires at all, especially compared to some of the other similar systems out there.

Dumpster fire might be harsh, but both PRO and HE are exceptionally antiquated and poorly conceived.  I've helped a couple of different integrators do some programming in PRO and have been surprised at stuff lacking that is basic in every other structured programming environment I've used, even the old 1980's STARGATE.

As to HE … 

• You cannot see 'connections' and some other bits so have no insight in to stuff that a dealer or C4 employee has done nor any way to know if you're overwriting other stuff. 
• No good debug or trace capabilities.
• No ability to edit commands. If you want to change something you have to rebuild the entire command which can be many clicks.
• No ability to copy/paste commands
• and on and on...

That said, it's been the only game in town for providing homeowners with some semblance of control over their system. The question is when will other options like HomeKit become viable.

[Andrew luecke]

3 minutes ago, TundraSonic said:

Dumpster fire might be harsh, but both PRO and HE are exceptionally antiquated and poorly conceived.  I've helped a couple of different integrators do some programming in PRO and have been surprised at stuff lacking that is basic in every other structured programming environment I've used, even the old 1980's STARGATE.

Like what? The only thing I can think of is variable counters.. And we have a variable manipulator driver that can do that

[msgreenf]

12 minutes ago, TundraSonic said:

when will other options like HomeKit become viable.

We have heard this every year since 2014 when homekit was released... if you can't make a viable product in nearly a decade at the largest company in the world I don't think you care enough to 

[zaphod]

17 hours ago, TundraSonic said:

That said, it's been the only game in town for providing homeowners with some semblance of control over their system. The question is when will other options like HomeKit become viable.

I am not sure about HomeKit since Apple's tendency is to keep you within their own ecosystem as much as possible, and I say this as a dedicated iOS adherent.  But Home Assistant has become quite impressive and is becoming a viable alternative for some, but it may be too geeky for the masses.

[RyanE]

Home Assistant's biggest failing is that it doesn't handle AV control terribly well.  You can add 3rd party remotes to do some of that, but it's then not terribly integrated into the Home Assistant project.

Multi-room audio selection and control isn't really there.

For 'traditional' automation (contact/relay/serial/IP control of devices), it's pretty capable.

RyanE

[zaphod]

2 hours ago, RyanE said:

Home Assistant's biggest failing is that it doesn't handle AV control terribly well.  You can add 3rd party remotes to do some of that, but it's then not terribly integrated into the Home Assistant project.

Multi-room audio selection and control isn't really there.

For 'traditional' automation (contact/relay/serial/IP control of devices), it's pretty capable.

Yes, so far media support and playback is the biggest drawback from what I can tell. It doesn't seem to have anywhere near the functionality of C4 in that area.

But it was pretty easy to get up and running quickly.  I installed Home Assistant as a docker on my unRAID server and it found a whole bunch of my smart devices, including Rokus, Plex servers, my SolarEdge solar power inverter, outlet switches, Govee and Magic Home LED light strip controllers, Harmony remotes, Unifi devices, Tasmota MQTT devices, Carrier Infinity Furnace, etc.  And they were working within 15 minutes of downloading the docker.  I then added my C4 devices and it found all my lights.  I was also able to add stuff for which there may not be a proper C4 driver, like "unoffical" APIs - such as for a Tesla.  I probably have more third party devices in HA than in C4 without actually looking too hard.

I must say that as an end user it is nice to be able to easily add a new device, like an outlet plug, or LED light strip, and use it in your HA system immediately without having to pay $75-100 for a driver and without needing a dealer to set it up for you. 

And HA works well through a web browser - I keep waiting for Composer to becoming a web application and for there to be a Web Navigator.  That is somewhat less necessary by running the Android app under Win11 in WSA.