Hue with 3.3 - Best Practices?

[HomeAutomationNerd]

After a bit of trial and error, I've got the 3.3 Updates working with Hue. 

The Good:

1. The IOS App has color wheel and presets now, and works nicely. 
2. Hue Zones are picked up, and bound to the Hue Bulb. Much nicer, and colors and brightness stay in sync far better than before. 

The Bad:

1. Doesn't pickup Hue events (aka: Do something in the Hue App). Hue API supports streamed events, so things could stay in sync. C4 bridge driver needs an update. 
2. The T3 screens just give dimming. No color wheels or presets. 
3. The T4 screens just give dimming. No color wheels or presets. 
4. When bound to a switch, I still have to program the on/off behavior. By default, turning off the switch cuts power to the Hue bulb. Custom settings still appear needed. 
5. Needed an additional controller reboot to pickup lights from the bridge driver. 

I would love thoughts on the best approach to #4. That is, how best to setup the switches to support Hue? 

[LollerAgent]

Was Hue supposed to be to be fully supported by the new stuff on OS 3.3?  I thought it was.  

[HomeAutomationNerd]

@LollerAgentI had assumed full support from the various media online. Hue support has taken a step forward, but it's nowhere near "Fully" supported. 

[Darin, PM C4 CX Platform]

3 hours ago, ChrisM said:

After a bit of trial and error, I've got the 3.3 Updates working with Hue. 

The Good:

1. The IOS App has color wheel and presets now, and works nicely. 
2. Hue Zones are picked up, and bound to the Hue Bulb. Much nicer, and colors and brightness stay in sync far better than before. 

The Bad:

1. Doesn't pickup Hue events (aka: Do something in the Hue App). Hue API supports streamed events, so things could stay in sync. C4 bridge driver needs an update. 
2. The T3 screens just give dimming. No color wheels or presets. 
3. The T4 screens just give dimming. No color wheels or presets. 
4. When bound to a switch, I still have to program the on/off behavior. By default, turning off the switch cuts power to the Hue bulb. Custom settings still appear needed. 
5. Needed an additional controller reboot to pickup lights from the bridge driver. 

I would love thoughts on the best approach to #4. That is, how best to setup the switches to support Hue? 

@chrism,

Are you a dealer or an end-customer. I have Hue in my project and can confirm 1-4 is working properly on the 3.3.0 build just released to production.

1. 1. Make sure your using the new Philip's Hue Light (OS 3.3.0+) drivers (v72) with your bulbs and that the Hue bridge driver is updated to the latest (v 849) and then make sure your Poll interval is set, this is the polling rate that it will check for state changes.  So if you make a change in the Hue app it will take this long before C4 is in-sync with what is shown in the Hue app. (Default rate is 30 seconds)
2. For 2 & 3, The T3 & T4 have the functionality, it is under a long press of the bulb icon > color. However, it may just need to sync with the feature flag server before it is available. It does a check-in for feature changes every 15 minutes or so, you can reboot the device to speed things up.  We are in the process of moving to a new service that will be instant, because the sync delays associated with the current feature flag service can cause confusion.
3. ^ See above
4. What kind of switch are you binding it too? When bound to a keypad, everything is working properly in my system for on, off, and dimming. (See attached image)

[HomeAutomationNerd]

 

> [,,,] Make sure your Poll interval is set

The recent Hue API has full push features via Server Sent Events. Designed specifically for home automation system Intergrations. No polling. Very little latency. Hopefully the C4 Bridge driver can be updated to use this. See here. Actual API Docs are behind their auth prompt. Here's a simple Github example in Node.

> The T3 & T4 have the functionality, it is under a long press of the bulb icon > color

Indeed!! Long Press. Confirmed on T3 and T4 devices. Thanks. 

> What kind of switch are you binding it too?

I'm using the C4-SW120277. Set to "Use as a 2 button keypad", with the same connections you show. This means I need a custom macro to set power, as turning the keypad on won't necessary power up the Hue lights. I end up adding the script to make this foolproof - every time it's turned on, the lights should turn on. This includes after a power outage, or whatever.

("Island Pendants - Load" is the name of the physical switch, which is hidden in the navigators. The "Island Pendants" is the name of the Hue Switch.)

Connections are the same as you showed - from the physical switch to the Hue Light. 

[Darin, PM C4 CX Platform]

18 hours ago, HomeAutomationNerd said:

 

> [,,,] Make sure your Poll interval is set

The recent Hue API has full push features via Server Sent Events. Designed specifically for home automation system Intergrations. No polling. Very little latency. Hopefully the C4 Bridge driver can be updated to use this. See here. Actual API Docs are behind their auth prompt. Here's a simple Github example in Node.

> The T3 & T4 have the functionality, it is under a long press of the bulb icon > color

Indeed!! Long Press. Confirmed on T3 and T4 devices. Thanks. 

> What kind of switch are you binding it too?

I'm using the C4-SW120277. Set to "Use as a 2 button keypad", with the same connections you show. This means I need a custom macro to set power, as turning the keypad on won't necessary power up the Hue lights. I end up adding the script to make this foolproof - every time it's turned on, the lights should turn on. This includes after a power outage, or whatever.

("Island Pendants - Load" is the name of the physical switch, which is hidden in the navigators. The "Island Pendants" is the name of the Hue Switch.)

Connections are the same as you showed - from the physical switch to the Hue Light. 

I passed the info about the new Push API from Hue to our drivers team and they said it is in their backlog to move in that direction with a future driver update, but couldn't give me a timeline on when to expect it since they had some other driver updates in front of it.  

[TundraSonic]

"Needed an additional controller reboot to pickup lights from the bridge driver." 

Will it now automatically pick up new lights added to a Hue bridge?  That would be a huge improvement over having to call an integrator just because you bought a new lightbulb.

[Topfox]

On 6/8/2022 at 5:53 PM, Darin, C4 PM UI said:

@chrism,

Are you a dealer or an end-customer. I have Hue in my project and can confirm 1-4 is working properly on the 3.3.0 build just released to production.

1. 1. Make sure your using the new Philip's Hue Light (OS 3.3.0+) drivers (v72) with your bulbs and that the Hue bridge driver is updated to the latest (v 849) and then make sure your Poll interval is set, this is the polling rate that it will check for state changes.  So if you make a change in the Hue app it will take this long before C4 is in-sync with what is shown in the Hue app. (Default rate is 30 seconds)
2. For 2 & 3, The T3 & T4 have the functionality, it is under a long press of the bulb icon > color. However, it may just need to sync with the feature flag server before it is available. It does a check-in for feature changes every 15 minutes or so, you can reboot the device to speed things up.  We are in the process of moving to a new service that will be instant, because the sync delays associated with the current feature flag service can cause confusion.
3. ^ See above
4. What kind of switch are you binding it too? When bound to a keypad, everything is working properly in my system for on, off, and dimming. (See attached image)

Nice thanks for posting this.  Just had mine setup this way too.

[Technomage]

I have two Philips Hue Bridge drivers (due to having more devices than one bridge can support), and have this afternoon, replaced the older Hue light drivers, with the new Philips Hue Light (OS 3.3.0+) drivers.

For all of the lights on Bridge 1, all is well.

However, I have one light on Bridge 2, but it doesn't appear in the drop down list of available lights, even after pressing Actions>Update Available Lights.

 

So, it looks like the new Philips Hue Light driver only supports one bridge connection at present.

Hopefully this will get fixed, as the previous drivers worked fine with more than one bridge.

So for the present, I'm keeping the Bridge 2 light on the old 'Single Lamp White Warmth - FREE' driver

[fleon]

@Technomagenope, you must have something else going on.  I have 11 bridges on the 3.3 driver and they are working correctly.   Make sure to go into Connections and make sure the LIGHT driver is bound to the 2nd bridge.  Then go back to System Design and look in the light dropdown. 

if you are seeing the lights on Bridge 1, the light driver is bound incorrectly.  You should NOT be able to see the lights on both bridges at the same time in the light dropdown. 

 

[sofakng]

Can you share the Control4 Zigbee network with the Hue bulbs?

It seems like having two different Zigbee networks might cause interference?  I'm also concerned because there are so many protocols using the 2.4 GHz spectrum (WiFi, Bluetooth, Zigbee, etc).

Having one Zigbee network should also extend signal range/strength too because the Hue bulbs could extend it?

[RyanE]

21 minutes ago, sofakng said:

Can you share the Control4 Zigbee network with the Hue bulbs?

No.  They can't join each other's meshes.

The Hue lighting uses Zigbee LL (Light Link, inside of 3.0), while Control4 uses Zigbee HA.

The Hue also doesn't support the 'large installation' commands that Control4 implements and requires.

Sorry.

RyanE

[sofakng]

I'm still learning about Zigbee, but Zigbee 3.0 is backwards compatible with both ZHA and ZLL, right?

Couldn't a Zigbee 3.0 hub (controller?) support both the Hue bulbs (ZLL) and Control4 (ZHA) ?

[Matt Lowe]

On 6/8/2022 at 4:46 PM, HomeAutomationNerd said:

?

I'm using the C4-SW120277. Set to "Use as a 2 button keypad", with the same connections you show. This means I need a custom macro to set power, as turning the keypad on won't necessary power up the Hue lights. I end up adding the script to make this foolproof - every time it's turned on, the lights should turn on. This includes after a power outage, or whatever.

("Island Pendants - Load" is the name of the physical switch, which is hidden in the navigators. The "Island Pendants" is the name of the Hue Switch.)

Connections are the same as you showed - from the physical switch to the Hue Light. 

I would also suggest switching your programmed to when the hue light is turned on to turn on the switch load. This programming requires you to push the button so if you turned on the light from the app nothing would happen.

 

Self promotion here but we just released 3 new videos on programming Hue lights in composer training course. We now have videos covering the new 3.3 interface and the older drivers as well depending on your needs.

https://www.patreon.com/waltstv

[Topfox]

Has anyone seen an occurrence of this.

I have 12 hue color bulbs hooked up to a C4-SW120277.  When I turn on the lights either through the switch in 2 button mode or through the C4 IOS App the lights come on at the correct default color which is just a warm yellowish color like a standard bulb. However, when I turn the lights off the bulbs switch right before they turn off to a bright white color. I need to double check, but I think this only happens when I turn off through one of the options and not both the switch and the app. Can’t remember if it was the App or directly at the switch, need to run a test again. It’s not a huge deal of course, but slightly annoying when it happens and I’m paying attention. Like a nagging mini flaw in my system. Lol

[WhyPhy]

Does the switch physically cut power to the bulbs? Or is the switch setup as a keypad, so that it continuously powers the bulbs and sends commands to the Hue controller to turn the lights off or on.

The symptoms you're describing are as if it's setup to cut power to the bulbs when off, which means the bulbs could behave oddly when they lose power. If so, it would be better to configure the SW120277 to always leave the circuit powered up so the bulbs stay on the Zigbee network and connected to the Hue Hub. Then send commands over Hue Zigbee to turn the lights on/off.

[LollerAgent]

14 hours ago, Topfox said:

Has anyone seen an occurrence of this.

I have 12 hue color bulbs hooked up to a C4-SW120277.  When I turn on the lights either through the switch in 2 button mode or through the C4 IOS App the lights come on at the correct default color which is just a warm yellowish color like a standard bulb. However, when I turn the lights off the bulbs switch right before they turn off to a bright white color. I need to double check, but I think this only happens when I turn off through one of the options and not both the switch and the app. Can’t remember if it was the App or directly at the switch, need to run a test again. It’s not a huge deal of course, but slightly annoying when it happens and I’m paying attention. Like a nagging mini flaw in my system. Lol

If you are in fact cutting power to the bulbs, you need to use the Hue app to configure the bulbs to power back on to the previous color/brightness.  It's a configurable option within the Hue app.

[Topfox]

So I just did my retest of the current setup since I wasn't sure if it was from the physical switch off sequence or from the C4 app off sequence where I have the issue. It is actually when I turn off the lights from the mobile app which the programming turns off the Hue bulbs first through the Hue driver and then flips the switch LED to the bottom button.  The switch is configured as a 2 button keypad.

Should also note that if I do the shutoff of the room from within the Hue App itself it dims the light till off, but I don't see the color change during that off process.

[Topfox]

And Im dumb.  In C4 the Default Dim Color property was checked and had a different color than the default color.  Modifying that fixed it.

[RyanE]

6 minutes ago, Topfox said:

Modifying that fixed it.

Thanks for being man enough to admit it, possibly helping someone else in the future...

RyanE

[fleon]

Yes, the fact that Default Dim color is checked by default is totally wrong, in my opinion.  

[JSTRONG]

Is it suggested to just keep continuous power to the Hue Fixtures/Bulbs and just have the Control4 keypads for Hue Scenes?

And speaking of scenes, Do those "Store presets" in the hue driver do anything? They don't seem to store my Hue presets. I select the Hue scene in the Hue app, then click Store preset in composer, but it never saves it

 

 

[Cyknight]

16 hours ago, JSTRONG said:

Is it suggested to just keep continuous power to the Hue Fixtures/Bulbs

Yes (scenes or groups is what you'd use depending on situation) that would be the normal recommended way.

 

[JSTRONG]

Thanks cy

[blub]

On 7/6/2022 at 3:38 PM, RyanE said:

No.  They can't join each other's meshes.

The Hue lighting uses Zigbee LL (Light Link, inside of 3.0), while Control4 uses Zigbee HA.

The Hue also doesn't support the 'large installation' commands that Control4 implements and requires.

There is an abundance of ZigBee hardware which could be put to use with Control4. I do understand the stack changes, however what prevents Control4 from creating a separate Mesh with Zigbee 3, i.e via a an external USB stick to have the best of both worlds? It would drastically increase the usefulness of Control4, especially compared to the catching up from smartthings and so on - also Matter integration would be really nice...