chopedogg88

So that you don't have to buy a Josh nano/micro for that room if you already have the remote.  or if you already had one in the room, the remote might tend to hear you better especially if there is some background noise, since its presumably within arm's distance of your mouth.

So that you don't have to buy a Josh nano/micro for that room if you already have the remote.  or if you already had one in the room, the remote might tend to hear you better especially if there is some background noise, since its presumably within arm's distance of your mouth.

In that case, I would recommend just buying a used I/O extender on eBay for $100 or less...maybe that's what Control4 figures people will do if they are in that situation, and therefore its not worth their time/money/hassle to re-work those devices.  But most systems I program, most of the I/O ports are no longer in use because they've long since upgraded their other devices (cable boxes, TVs, etc) to IP-controllable ones.

I'm pretty sure this was already explained earlier in this thread, but the IO Extender is basically just a bunch of simple I/O ports, its not a controller...so I'm not sure why the insistence on comparing the two other than the fact that the IO is still functional in OS 3+?  The IO extender is not a processor, not an audio streamer, no HDMI/video out, just some basic contacts, relays, serial and IR ports.  It can't run your whole house, its not a zigbee server.  The IO Extenders cannot run OS3, but they can exist within an OS 3 system because they are not required to run the OS.
I am a dealer for Control4 and also other competing vendors (Savant, Crestron, etc)...they all have basic, dumb, I/O devices which can be used on newer OS, whereas the host/controller hardware needs to be upgraded to run the latest OS.  This is not a Control4 thing, its typical across this industry and electronics in general.  I can't keep my iPhone or Android from 10 years ago and have it run the latest software.  If I want to run the latest software, I need to decide that its worth it to me and upgrade my phone (which I do every other year or so, because I like technology and like to stay current - my wife on the other hand, could care less as long as she can text and make phone calls).
Nobody is shutting off your HC800 from working - it will continue to work for as long as you want to use it - just like you can keep using your old 10 year old mobile device if you so choose, for what it was designed to do at the time it was released and slightly after.  But I'm sure you aren't expecting apple to allow you to run the latest iOS in some limited fashion on your 10-year old device - that would require them to test everything on that old hardware and make sure that it will be a good, fast experience so that they don't ruin their reputation by having people complain about how slow/insecure/whatever their new software is, because its running on old processing technology.
I know its not a 100% perfect analogy, but its the first that comes to mind, I'm sure there are many other examples of this across a variety of industries and technologies.

These disagreements are based on assumption though, not experience with the HC800 software stack. They literally said it's a seperate stack they need to maintain (so isn't straightforward). 
Take the time you believe it will take to develop, and multiply it by 5. Something this complex won't take a day, it will take significantly longer.
Don't forget you're still managing an entire OS and migration process which involves more than simply turning off director. It also must be secure too and they need to migrate the old config, remove the old project, etc. And all of this is done using low level code.
And how many major feature improvements are those other companies making to their devices after 10 years? The hue bridge was supported for 8 years, but not much changed with it in that time.
This request basically requires a whole new firmware to be made. It always seems to be a quick job. But 90% of the time it isn't.
That's composer related, not firmware (different teams most likely anyway). Have you suggested these changes to Control4? Control 4 often relies on feedback for prioritisation of features and if nobody makes the request, they likely won't work on it.
 
What about all the things they have added though? Such as the ability to add c4z files in bulk, colorwheel, new encryption APIs, mobile web interface support, new voice control, the core series (which also seemed to enable a lot of New things which most drivers aren't even using yet), the eq features on the new core, eq support on audio drivers, the ability to hide buttons on certain proxies, etc. 
In practice, Control4 has improved so quickly in the past year, that driver developers have been struggling to keep up (I've probably personally spent 4-6 months of the past year upgrading drivers to use the new features).
I don't think it's fair to pick a few things and say "what about these". Well, what about the things I've mentioned? 
The new features list I've mentioned affect day to day operation significantly. Shouldn't these be prioritised? 
Huge changes have been made. Whilst it would be great to get everything done, there are limited development resources and limited hours in the day.

The same that was echoed numerous times in the conversation - no-one is forced to update, so no-one is forced to buy new hardware.
So if you're not willing to spend money to go to a Core-5 at this time ... don't.
 
We have numerous systems running older versions perfectly fine, and we fully support them as far as we can. If new features aren't worth the cost of replacing a decade old controller..., don't update. I fail to see why that is such a huge concern. 🤷‍♂️

Where I question what Dr Mark is saying - that audio streaming is an "ancillary function".  There is a lot of software behind the function of streaming the music from all these various music services, I don't think you can simply treat the hc800 as a dumb RCA port that is passing that through....but I could be wrong...wouldn't be the first time or the last!

I think we all have to admit that home automation companies utilizing a group of components designed to work together have to sunset technology at some point. It’s happened with Sonos, Bose, Apple and others. It’s just a fact you have to live with when you buy into these environments. If you want your system to always have the latest and greatest features, you have to keep replacing and buying new components.

It stinks when it happens to you - I spent so much money replacing Connect Amps with Amps. But it’s the nature of the beast. I could have stayed on S1.

Control4 just can’t be expected to code around aging controllers forever. We’ll always be able to say ‘why can’t they just release a version of OS X.X without that one feature so it can keep running on HC800s,’ but at some point the software gets so cumbersome it’s just not feasible/too expensive for C4 to support it all.

during a once in a lifetime global pandemic, where there were major supply chain problems across all industries...

during a once in a lifetime global pandemic, where there were major supply chain problems across all industries...

during a once in a lifetime global pandemic, where there were major supply chain problems across all industries...

You can add the Neeos to your system without the help of a Pro...just turn it on, connect to wifi, select your controller, done.
Side note - I have replacements screens for the SR260's, for a fee I can swap out your screens for you, or you can do it yourself if you are into that kinda thing...but it takes some practice...(I broke 1 or 2 until I figured it out)

eBay.  they are no longer sold by Control4.

Yes I've done the same thing where I replaced all of the Lutron homeworks keypads with Control4 wireless configurable keypads.  The KC120277 can run over 110 volt or low voltage (48v), so you can simply use the 2 power wires from the Lutron bus to power the Control4 wireless keypads and don't connect the 2 communication wires.  Works great.

you can use a dimmer on a bath fan, and just configure the dimmer to have a minimum on percentage of 100% and the shortest possible ramp time.  should be fine unless there is a high in-rush of electricity required...usually bath fans aren't enough to cause problems in my experience.

It's not just automations.  It's the system as a whole.  Control4 has pretty sophisticated processing units -- you don't get that with a SmartThings or Hubitat hub.  Start loading 200 devices into a $100 hub and you'll find that the connections break.  All of a sudden random switches start disappearing and have to be reconnected once every couple weeks.  You get lag when you try to turn things on and off.  The polling is off -- it says switches are on that are really off.  It just gets overloaded.  Then you have to look at the connection methodology.  Many DIY devices are basic wifi devices.  Do you want to have 70+ light switches taking up your wifi IP addresses?  Probably not.  Z-wave?  Well that's really slow and clunky.  Lutron Caseta is good, but limited to 75 devices, including remotes.  If you want a higher end Lutron product?  Well now you need a dealer.  
It's just all about scale.  

I'm not a fan of those Araknis APs...I would recommend Ruckus R650's, they should be significantly better.  I have some in stock, I can pre-configure them for you so all you have to do is plug them in at the existing locations.  I use Ruckus Unleashed, so you don't need a new router or a Ruckus controller.  PM me if interested.

The big issue for DIY is the lack of a solid unified remote control. HomeAssistant is pretty good. You pair it with Lutron lighting system, and it comes pretty darn close to Control4 (assuming you don't care about the TV interfaces). But what all of the DIY systems all lack is a solid remote control you can use with them. Sure, you can hack stuff together. And maybe there is some weird stuff out there, like Ava or something. But the remote options are not abundant. That's why I ultimately chose C4. 

He's not talking poorly of C4.  He's asking about Control4 or any other non-DIY system for that matter (Savant, Crestron, Lutron Homeworks, Elan, etc, etc).
Its a valid question, and he's received lots of valid answers...nobody seems to be upset, except for the Savant Fanboy.

Congratulations that's may be the first post where you haven't.  My comprehension level is pretty solid I think...if you want I'll PM you my SAT scores and degree?  Cause I'm very upset here

You really have difficulty with comprehension… or reading. I also didnt mention Savant, but I understand your upset. 
 

Why Sony TVs when there's TCL
Why Mercedes when there's Kia
Why buy a brand name computer when there's cheap 'non brands' on amazon
Why a surround system when you can get an atmos soundbar....
 
 

He's not talking poorly of C4.  He's asking about Control4 or any other non-DIY system for that matter (Savant, Crestron, Lutron Homeworks, Elan, etc, etc).
Its a valid question, and he's received lots of valid answers...nobody seems to be upset, except for the Savant Fanboy.

Why is Apple such a huge portion of the phone market, when Android is cheaper and potentially does more?

People don't want to fuss, they want somebody else to do it for them.
They want less interaction with setup and maintenance.
They want the benefits without the work.
And dealers want to make a profit. I know dirty word. But we do this for a living. There's no end of the year profit in the DIY platforms.
Sure, you can say charge for your time, but nobody wants to pay for multiple house calls for this one updated, and that one didn't and this setting got changed, and the pc died, or the network, or the ....
You saved up front, and paid out through the years.
I'm sure many who have gone theroute would be astonished if they punched a clock to track the hours they spent in reality.
And yes, there's some of that within Control4, but if you design it well, choose any third party devices carefully and keep native as much as possible, then it's very manageable.

usually that happens when the device has an IP statically assigned on the device itself.