Cyknight Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 3 hours ago, Zuhair said: In addition, the engineer who designed the DS2 did not put in his concediration customers who had thier old DS back box in concrete or marble? Atleast make the DS2 fits into the old box! It wasn't engineered for C4 to begin with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcovach Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 15 hours ago, C4junkie said: ^Sure. There it is again... Comments that become personal Anything to address the real issues. Lock down of Pro Amoebic sales growth resulting in a stock exchange delisting Treatment of end customers like they are mugs. Inability to cope with a changing retail environment and marketplace. Failure to acknowledge the end consumer is smarter than realised and things have changed.... Yep fair enough. Wasting my time... We've heard it all before!. (So let's just all put our heads in the sand and sweep it all under the carpet!) IMO! Pete and Repeat went into the store. If Pete came out, which of the two was still in the store? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 Ok. You have your opinions. Which are great. But it's enough. This is a total hijack. Move on Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaltrader Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 14 hours ago, Cyknight said: It wasn't engineered for C4 to begin with. It has C4 name on it ...even worse if they offered no input to suit their current customers. Shows they are just taking off the shelf products and rebranding them their own. LollerAgent 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaltrader Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 14 hours ago, msgreenf said: who is shoving anything down throats? Are dealers force upgrading customers without consent? Seriously arrogant. Good luck keeping customers with that approach. thegreatheed 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo1738 Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 Just now, digitaltrader said: Seriously arrogant. Good luck keeping customers with that approach. I'm not a C4 dealer and from an outside perspective from what I have seen everyone is blaming the dealers on here and C4. Again, go pick up your 8 year old cell phone and see if it updates to the latest iOS or Android with full functionality. Technology is developing so fast at it's current rate it can't help be outdated in 5 years. If the company decides a device will cause problems with an update they have every right to EOL it. I get that this is expensive technology but it doesn't change the fact of how old it is and that at the time it was pretty cutting edge. Additionally, this thread was supposed to be about features for the new 3.0 but all I keep seeing is people complaining that something was rightfully EOL. Then the most people who are most helpful on the forum are being attacked as if they are the ones who made the decision. Look at my posts, I'm a pretty even headed guy on here but enough is enough. People are unhappy with the decision great, but don't rag on the dealers who are trying to explain why it's not a crazy thing for technology to get out dated so quickly this day in age. chopedogg88, thegreatheed and msgreenf 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 Seriously arrogant. Good luck keeping customers with that approach.That's fine. Call it arrogant. But no one is forcing upgrades. I think I can honestly say all my customers are happy. But that doesn't mean I'm for everyone. I'm ok w that. I pick my customers. Call that arrogant too. That's ok. I'm lucky. I can pick customers. Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk thegreatheed and Brownbatsbreath 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstafford388 Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 46 minutes ago, digitaltrader said: It has C4 name on it ...even worse if they offered no input to suit their current customers. Shows they are just taking off the shelf products and rebranding them their own. Haha. that's not what happened at all. sometimes in the manufacturing world things happen that are beyond your control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blub Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 I'm not a C4 dealer and from an outside perspective from what I have seen everyone is blaming the dealers on here and C4. Again, go pick up your 8 year old cell phone and see if it updates to the latest iOS or Android with full functionality. Technology is developing so fast at it's current rate it can't help be outdated in 5 years. If the company decides a device will cause problems with an update they have every right to EOL it. I get that this is expensive technology but it doesn't change the fact of how old it is and that at the time it was pretty cutting edge. Additionally, this thread was supposed to be about features for the new 3.0 but all I keep seeing is people complaining that something was rightfully EOL. Then the most people who are most helpful on the forum are being attacked as if they are the ones who made the decision. Look at my posts, I'm a pretty even headed guy on here but enough is enough. People are unhappy with the decision great, but don't rag on the dealers who are trying to explain why it's not a crazy thing for technology to get out dated so quickly this day in age. You cannot compare a smartphone with something that is part of house.Home automation is in between long lasting parts for houses, like HVAC etc., and short lasting technology - it's a balance act.For me everything that is somehow built into a house, like switches or a door station is something that I expect to work until it breaks, even if it is part of a HA system. So an update to OS3 requiring to remove the doorstation is kinda a red flag here - it's supposed to make sound when someone pressed a button and provide audio and video - since the device was built to do that I don't see a reason why that should not work with OS 3 - it's not like the DS is 100$ piece of kit. I don't expect an older device getting all the new functions, it's just about keeping it working. The next step would be that all light switches are not compatible with OS 3.1 or so.. digitaltrader 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 Technology is technology. Doesn't matter what kind it is Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaltrader Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 19 minutes ago, blub said: You cannot compare a smartphone with something that is part of house. Home automation is in between long lasting parts for houses, like HVAC etc., and short lasting technology - it's a balance act. For me everything that is somehow built into a house, like switches or a door station is something that I expect to work until it breaks, even if it is part of a HA system. So an update to OS3 requiring to remove the doorstation is kinda a red flag here - it's supposed to make sound when someone pressed a button and provide audio and video - since the device was built to do that I don't see a reason why that should not work with OS 3 - it's not like the DS is 100$ piece of kit. I don't expect an older device getting all the new functions, it's just about keeping it working. The next step would be that all light switches are not compatible with OS 3.1 or so.. Exactly the point I was trying to make....well said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaltrader Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, msgreenf said: Technology is technology. Doesn't matter what kind it is Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk Your sink is technology....your toilet is technology....your bed is technology. Etc etc ...some just more advanced than others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 Not really. But ok. No chips in my sink bed or toiletsSent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 4 hours ago, digitaltrader said: It has C4 name on it ...even worse if they offered no input to suit their current customers. Shows they are just taking off the shelf products and rebranding them their own. Wow jump to conclusions much lately? 1 hour ago, blub said: You cannot compare a smartphone with something that is part of house. Home automation is in between long lasting parts for houses, like HVAC etc., and short lasting technology - it's a balance act. For me everything that is somehow built into a house, like switches or a door station is something that I expect to work until it breaks, even if it is part of a HA system. BUT IT DIDN'T STOP WORKING. You just can't upgrade to the next software version with it. msgreenf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggzlot Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 2 hours ago, blub said: You cannot compare a smartphone with something that is part of house. Home automation is in between long lasting parts for houses, like HVAC etc., and short lasting technology - it's a balance act. For me everything that is somehow built into a house, like switches or a door station is something that I expect to work until it breaks, even if it is part of a HA system. So an update to OS3 requiring to remove the doorstation is kinda a red flag here - it's supposed to make sound when someone pressed a button and provide audio and video - since the device was built to do that I don't see a reason why that should not work with OS 3 - it's not like the DS is 100$ piece of kit. I don't expect an older device getting all the new functions, it's just about keeping it working. The next step would be that all light switches are not compatible with OS 3.1 or so.. I am no expert - but house codes to change. If you go to do a remodel you may need to add a banister to a staircase, you may need to replace those outdated non grounded outlets. who knows. Again I am not directly involved in that side of the trade but I have two architects in my family so I do hear about how in a design a 60 year old house may just want to do something simple, but then it would not be up to code anymore and certain towns will not grandfather in certain things. I even heard my HVAC guy saying something about freon being discontinued and at some point people will need new HVAC systems. He said some systems may be less than 10 years old. HVAC systems would cost way more than a new EA5. Times change. Codes change. Technology changes. As pointed out, if you cannot afford to make the upgrade, or cannot replace some hardware for logistical reasons, don't do the upgrade. I cannot afford to justify the cost of an EA controller/ditching my 250 and getting 4 new touch screens. So I am on 2.10.4. Life goes on - I look on the bright side, I can still mess with my HVAC thermostat on the on screen UI! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Africa C4 user Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 Everyone (most sane people at least) liked 2.10.6 (and bought into this or something inferior) and everyone has the option of sticking to 2.10.6... Group 1 still have this. Everyone (here, I think I really can say everyone) wanted to see a major upgrade is what Control4 offers. We got that in OS3.0. Group 2 are better off! Thus, everyone should be happy and some should have something to aim for... The problem is that Group 1 are jealous of Group 2... I fail to see what all of the fuss is about. Sure, I was irritated to have to brick an HC250 and buy a new EA1. But that is a price I was happy to pay to move from Group 1 to Group 2... thegreatheed 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaltrader Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 23 minutes ago, South Africa C4 user said: Everyone (most sane people at least) liked 2.10.6 (and bought into this or something inferior) and everyone has the option of sticking to 2.10.6... Group 1 still have this. Everyone (here, I think I really can say everyone) wanted to see a major upgrade is what Control4 offers. We got that in OS3.0. Group 2 are better off! Thus, everyone should be happy and some should have something to aim for... The problem is that Group 1 are jealous of Group 2... I fail to see what all of the fuss is about. Sure, I was irritated to have to brick an HC250 and buy a new EA1. But that is a price I was happy to pay to move from Group 1 to Group 2... Mine has nothing to do with upgrading controllers. I am more than willing to upgrade a controller in order to upgrade a system. It’s the ripping out of fixed items like a door station that require specialized masonry work. The door station had a single job to relay audio within my system. Why can I not continue to do so and upgrade into the future. I have no problem paying prices to upgrade controllers in order to get the latest software. It’s the inability to take a long fixed items like a door station. We are not comparing the same. OceanDad 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brownbatsbreath Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 I have fuses and want to upgrade to arc fault breakers, why do I need a whole new panel, feeders, meter socket, conduit, and weather head??? If C4 just shut down your ancient door station out of the blue, I’d totally agree with you.... but it still works. Old equipment just doesn’t magically support new features. You clowns can cry about ‘oh they didn’t even try’ as if they can magically ‘try harder’ and old hardware will suddenly achieve new things.. but it doesn’t work that way. Did you really install a door station into a custom home and not think... gee.. this won’t last forever... what do I do after that? chopedogg88, Neo1738 and msgreenf 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OceanDad Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, Brownbatsbreath said: Did you really install a door station into a custom home and not think... gee.. this won’t last forever... what do I do after that? Would it really have been that hard for C4 to have designed something shiny and new that at least fitted the old back box dimensions ? I'll bet that there would be more upgrades going on over the next few months if they had. I completely agree with the argument that nothing 'stopped working' with the release of OS3 - just stay with 2.10 and carry on. But it would make custom installs a lot easier to upgrade if the footprint was the same size. Let's be honest - C4 door stations/intercom/locks have always been a bit flaky. I'd go further and say that the competing hardware in this area isn't great either. None of these solutions are worthy of 2019 generation tech. Still waiting for the killer integration here - reliable, high res, non-laggy, good phone integration, works well remotely, simple to use etc. msgreenf and digitaltrader 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brownbatsbreath Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 I agree the door stations and intercom kind of suck. Just saying even the old back box is a proprietary product/size, I would have tried to mount it into something that is a little more forgiving, like a cedar block or something. I get it, that doesn’t always work with the design, but you or your architect need to consider this is something that may need to be replaced, serviced, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaltrader Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 1 hour ago, Brownbatsbreath said: I agree the door stations and intercom kind of suck. Just saying even the old back box is a proprietary product/size, I would have tried to mount it into something that is a little more forgiving, like a cedar block or something. I get it, that doesn’t always work with the design, but you or your architect need to consider this is something that may need to be replaced, serviced, etc. I would’ve been much more forgiving at the original product actually worked as advertised and they had integrated it properly to begin with. I have been waiting for the day and software update that made this work as promised by my original dealer. I’m now being told that will never happen. I would be willing to upgrade to a new more modern technology had it been just a pop in and pop out solution. It sounds like Control4 is not considering their customers in their new product design. How hard is it to consider product dimensions when creating a replacement product? Truthfully I will not be going with a Control4 product going forward and be searching for a third-party from now on. I will let Control4 be the backbone of the system until something else more promising comes along. I will be willing to stay with Control4 for only the backbone of the system only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggzlot Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 A holovision 400 has a marginally bigger backbox. Remove c4 backbox. Install holovision. Use 2n Helios comm kit and call it a day 2n Helios makes the c4 doorstation. Got to believe the generic 2n drivers will work for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfh Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 5 hours ago, digitaltrader said: It sounds like Control4 is not considering their customers in their new product design. How hard is it to consider product dimensions when creating a replacement product? You are forgetting that the actual end user is NOT Control4’s customer - the dealer is. As long as the existing model is in place C4 has little incentive to change. I’m glad I dodged the DS bullet. When my system was first installed my dealer made the DS sound like the best thing ever. I passed (primarily because of the hardware cost) and it’s taken years for the actual function to come close to catching up with the hype. That said, the general direction this thread has taken is sad, comical and predictable. Those with access to Pro are generally happy with the status quo. Those without are not. Some of the C4 equipment EOL announcements are understandable (no longer supporting v2 touch screens). Others like totally nerfing the HC-250 are not. I have significant concerns in investing is ANY new C4 branded hardware because of this (though the hefty markups on C4 equipment don’t help). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zuhair Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 It wasn't engineered for C4 to begin with.This response is expected from a salesman post sales! C4 decided to purchase a door station design from a 3rd party that is not engineered for C4 and not putting in mind how will current users replace thier current DS fixed into stone/marble/concrete. In this case, options are:(1) not to upgrade to OS3 (2) upgrade to OS3 and inccur extra cost to replace the box (3) purchase a 3rd party SIP intercom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 So my .02 on the DS - it sucks. I agree with everyone there.... But on the 250, I can't fault Control4 for killing it - it's old and it just doesn't pay to invest engineering in something that old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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