Should I ditch C4?

[am350z]

1 hour ago, Cyknight said:

Overused, sure, but it's also the number 1 reason home automation/control systems don't work.

Look, do what you want in the end. But if you want easy control over a complete house, no DIY system will do everything you want (unless you're there to work on it 24/7).

Biggest issue that I see in this thread is that people are trying to control devices that don't want to be controlled.

YOU CANNOT expect to 'have all this stuff' and just have it work (C4, ELAN, Crestron, whatever - doesn't matter).

OP, you've had the worst luck. Sonos, MyQ...

But in the end, the problem with those is still the 'other' party.

SONOS broke the old API (and implemented a poor excuse of a replacement).

MyQ made the changes, and has since stated they are refusing to create an official API.

Why complain that C4 doesn't have the 124+ zone honeywell, when there are alternatives available (and no, you cannot tell me those alternatives are worse -or better- in any particular way.?

 

If you're building a new system, match the devices with what works best. Don't look at the device first, look at the integration first. MOST MAYOR brand devices that don't integrate well don't integrate well because they aren't able or willing to MAKE it work well on their side.

 

Yep, I'm sure this post will get some 'hate' - but you don't have to like the truth.

No hate.  Agree that part of issue is controlling devices that have limited or no compatibility. Example, the alarm.  The vista 20p is supported but not 128.  It was integrated with Crestron but doesn’t work well with c4.  Sure, i could change the alarm panel.  I am not faulting c4, just was considering if it is worth the hassle again versus just using native support apps. 

[am350z]

Good to know.  Can u send me the website? But again, just another device needing fixed.  I guess one just has to accept these systems need continued maintenance and updates.

[Cyknight]

41 minutes ago, am350z said:

 I am not faulting c4, just was considering if it is worth the hassle again versus just using native support apps. 

And it's a fair question - but in the end it's one only YOU can make. I can't stand having to use mutliple apps as it is in my house, just for setup purposes (which is pretty rare) for HUE bulbs, DMX lighting, etc etc etc. Heck I dislike having to do it for work purposes - I couldn't imagine having to go and do that on a daily basis after coming home from a busy day....I'd rather be back to where you had a TV, and a cable from the wall to it for your channels.....

But as I said, in the end it's your choice not mine.

 

PS my post was less about your OP as such (well except for the bad luck one) but more overall to the thread.

[eggzlot]

1 hour ago, am350z said:

Good to know.  Can u send me the website? But again, just another device needing fixed.  I guess one just has to accept these systems need continued maintenance and updates.

any tech needs support.  I’m getting my 3rd cable box in 14 months on Thursday.  Nothing to do w c4, just junk hardware.  It’s life

Depends on your model of garage stuff like:

https://www.creativeaccesssolutions.com/Universal-Security-20™-Interface-Module_p_13.html

https://www.garadget.com/product/security-2-0-dry-contact-adapter/

Then tilt sensors Which work on any door

https://www.nycesensors.com/product/garage-door-tilt-sensor

 

[JR2]

IMO at the moment in technology if you are not planning on deploying C4 using C4 supported CCTV, lighting and/or shades, and using the C4 mobile app, then the C4 system is overkill for your needs.

DIY systems/smart remotes do an ok job with Sonos and video, throw in lighting or more and it all goes down hill from there.  IMO all of the entry level systems (homekit, Alexa, etc.) have plateaued.  Not much more will evolve until there is some sort of industry agreed upon communication /  integration standard and history has shown us that this will not happen.

I like the fact that when I want to check up on my vacation home, fire up the app, change to my vacation home, look at the video streams, turn some lights on and off, etc.  Camera senses motion, C4 sends me an e-mail.

Want to check the temp and humidity - C4 app shows this too. 

I would hate to use an CCTV app, then switch to my lighting app, then, switch to a climate app, etc.

My advice is to deploy the system in stages and you will be happier and to avoid cloud based integrations - Nest, Ring, and so forth.

[zaphod]

15 hours ago, Elvis said:

It was an easy decision for me. I watched my family use our tech, based on C4, for 4 years. The only C4 equipment they used was the SR-260 remote (and the HC-250, later an EA-3 of course driving it). Perhaps it was just happenstance that I bought receivers that embraced Spotify and Airplay, but my family never used C4 audio. They airplay'ed right out of the music app. They "spotified" right out of the Spotify app -- and got instance gratification. Whereas "shairbridge" and C4 was a complete bust along with the C4 app. It looked cool, having all those Airplay targets but it was too delayed, or too glitchy, or it just didn't work. The whole time Airplay, Spotify Connect, and other network based sources worked great if you took C4 out of the mix.

Spotify Connect through C4 has worked flawlessly for me.  The only downside is that when I put in my Airpods to make a phone call Spotify playback switches back from C4 to my phone.  Airplay has similar issues where other audio on your phone may take over from music playback.  Therefore I always try to initialize playback from a PC rather than my phone.

[RAV]

The topic is ditching a Control System....

No control system can do better than the parts it is asked to integrate with.
And when companies change their minds about integration abilities later, it's a huge issue.

It's easy to point fingers, and there's lots of places to point to: The Network, The Integrator, Control4, when many times it's the 3rd Party and their API and software and changes.
Want a successful control system, go native, use as much from the control system company as possible.

Going all apps, you eliminate two fingers to point, and add one pointing at yourself. Now it's on you to keep them up to date, maintain your network, deal with changes and software. Some find that rewarding, "I did it myself". Others would rather not and pay some to do it for them. Could be an oil change, lawn care, painting, whatever category of DIY vs DI4ME, to each their own.

There's still frustration with DIY, but the expectation has changed, and it's your time to waste as oppose to your money to waste to pay for someone else's time.
That's who you are, not who the Control System is.

[am350z]

30 minutes ago, RAV said:

The topic is ditching a Control System....

No control system can do better than the parts it is asked to integrate with.
And when companies change their minds about integration abilities later, it's a huge issue.

It's easy to point fingers, and there's lots of places to point to: The Network, The Integrator, Control4, when many times it's the 3rd Party and their API and software and changes.
Want a successful control system, go native, use as much from the control system company as possible.

Going all apps, you eliminate two fingers to point, and add one pointing at yourself. Now it's on you to keep them up to date, maintain your network, deal with changes and software. Some find that rewarding, "I did it myself". Others would rather not and pay some to do it for them. Could be an oil change, lawn care, painting, whatever category of DIY vs DI4ME, to each their own.

There's still frustration with DIY, but the expectation has changed, and it's your time to waste as oppose to your money to waste to pay for someone else's time.
That's who you are, not who the Control System is.

I understand your point but not sure I agree. Our Sonos, Lutron Ra2, Nexia, Jandy iAqualink, Hue, etc have all auto-updated their apps and I have not had any issues or required significant time to keep running. I would suggest C4 requires not only money, but more importantly for me, significant time, to arrange for either in person or remote programmer.  That is more the issue for me.

[Elvis]

1 hour ago, zaphod said:

Spotify Connect through C4 has worked flawlessly for me.  ...

Yes, it worked perfectly for us and I should've mentioned it. Which makes me wonder... if they went to the trouble of adding Spotify Connect, why didn't they do the same with Airplay and Airplay 2, instead of "Shairbridge" 

[Elvis]

3 minutes ago, am350z said:

I understand your point but not sure I agree. Our Sonos, Lutron Ra2, Nexia, Jandy iAqualink, Hue, etc have all auto-updated their apps and I have not had any issues or required significant time to keep running. I would suggest C4 requires not only money, but more importantly for me, significant time, to arrange for either in person or remote programmer.  That is more the issue for me.

I agree with both of you. I thought @RAV's post was one of the best in the thread. I don't have a local Lutron dealer, or Sonos, or Ecobee, or Control4. But like you said, I have only needed help from my Control4 remote integrator. When Lutron's little puck integrates all the pieces of the pie with little or no help from me, and works all the time (0 down time) and pushes it all into HomeKit and/or Google Home and/or Alexa with no help from anyone -- I was sold. Is it DIY, technically, I guess it is. But it is less work for me than the D in DI4ME. DI4ME should mean less work for me. With Control4, eh not so much.

[Cyknight]

22 minutes ago, Elvis said:

Yes, it worked perfectly for us and I should've mentioned it. Which makes me wonder... if they went to the trouble of adding Spotify Connect, why didn't they do the same with Airplay and Airplay 2, instead of "Shairbridge" 

Licensing?

[lippavisual]

And when Shairbridge was introduced, Airplay 2 wasn't even a thought yet.  My guess would be licensing for the hold up currently.

I personally couldn't imagine my house without a C4 system.  The devices I chose to use are either native or have well known API's.  Unfortunately, the system is dealer based, which inherently can cause issues as well.

Good luck either way.

[Neo1738]

Definitely depends how you use it. I have automation like shades and lights go up/down on/off different times based on sunrise/sunset. I have my daughters room/bath set for bedtime at night on a schedule, cleaners arrive put in their code all lights on, music on, shades up, take snapshot before and when they leave goes back way it was, we use mocupancy when we vacation etc etc. If you just want control use homekit/alexa/google and their built in apps. You will be happier having that control it sounds like. That being said maybe you didn't fully get what c4 was capable of, maybe peruse this thread quickly to get an idea of what can be automated and where C4 shines way above the rest. 

 

[South Africa C4 user]

Like many others, I simply couldn’t imagine a home without C4. It really does everything for me and the beauty is being able to link things together.  I can think of hundreds of example:

1. TV in the lounge linked to our bedroom goes on and the music in our bedroom (different zone but close by) goes off.

2. Blinds open and the backlights on our lighting keypads change colour for day mode.

3. alarm goes off and lights come on in certain areas and the TV switches on and shows the security cameras.

4. Sauna and Steam Room are both turned on and the pool heat pumps turn off to prevent a power overload.

5. security sensors turn lights on.

6. Morning alarm is music, lights and blinds opening.

7. Panic buttons on every lighting keypad (press the top button and hold for 3 seconds in our case).

8. lighting keypads can control more than just lights, music, pool pumps, water features, blinds etc.

9. my daughter turns the Aircon on in winter (which I don’t get) and the underfloor heating in her room automatically turns off.

10. The shower starts running and the irrigation is paused so as to give good water pressure I’m the shower and the music volume in the bathroom is increased.

11. Driveway lights come on at night when ever the front door, the garage door or the main gate are opened.

12. Balcony lights come on whenever the door from our bedroom to the balcony is opened.

And the above is just the tip of the iceberg... I could probably list over 100 interactions between systems.  That is why I need automation so that all the systems talk to each other, respond intelligently to each other and are easy to control from a single interface.

[Amr]

Not all systems alike and no single user experience is the same, tastes are different as well, Pro or DIY have their rules of setup, don’t come to a C4 forum and start yelling and shouting and say I hate it, will 100’s like it specially here!

[am350z]

Just now, Amr said:

Not all systems alike and no single user experience is the same, tastes are different as well, Pro or DIY have their rules of setup, don’t come to a C4 forum and start yelling and shouting and say I hate it, will 100’s like it specially here!

Excuse me, but who is yelling and shouting or saying they hate it?  Not me, I was simply discussing pros/cons.  You seem defensive. 

[Amr]

Just now, am350z said:

Excuse me, but who is yelling and shouting or saying they hate it?  Not me, I was simply discussing pros/cons.  You seem defensive. 

Not at all, not you, am just hitting the breaks so we don’t get a flood of -ve comments on this thread ...

[Cyknight]

50 minutes ago, am350z said:

Excuse me, but who is yelling and shouting or saying they hate it?  Not me, I was simply discussing pros/cons.  You seem defensive. 

I would guess mainly aimed at the few 'run away from c4' style posts that filtered in - there's always a few people trolling those posts on here (no idea why they're even here to be honest if they dislike C4 so much, but to each their own hobby I suppose)

[am350z]

To follow up on this discussion, recently I was trying to decide what to do with our HVAC integration. We previously had the Houselogix Nexia driver which is now broken and never really worked well to begin with. A member here has created a driver but is it worth the time and effort? Will Trane update the app so that the API is now broken again?  Or do you just use the native app and forget it?  

[gadgetfreak]

On 9/23/2020 at 2:31 PM, South Africa C4 user said:

Like many others, I simply couldn’t imagine a home without C4. It really does everything for me and the beauty is being able to link things together.  I can think of hundreds of example:

1. TV in the lounge linked to our bedroom goes on and the music in our bedroom (different zone but close by) goes off.

2. Blinds open and the backlights on our lighting keypads change colour for day mode.

3. alarm goes off and lights come on in certain areas and the TV switches on and shows the security cameras.

4. Sauna and Steam Room are both turned on and the pool heat pumps turn off to prevent a power overload.

5. security sensors turn lights on.

6. Morning alarm is music, lights and blinds opening.

7. Panic buttons on every lighting keypad (press the top button and hold for 3 seconds in our case).

8. lighting keypads can control more than just lights, music, pool pumps, water features, blinds etc.

9. my daughter turns the Aircon on in winter (which I don’t get) and the underfloor heating in her room automatically turns off.

10. The shower starts running and the irrigation is paused so as to give good water pressure I’m the shower and the music volume in the bathroom is increased.

11. Driveway lights come on at night when ever the front door, the garage door or the main gate are opened.

12. Balcony lights come on whenever the door from our bedroom to the balcony is opened.

And the above is just the tip of the iceberg... I could probably list over 100 interactions between systems.  That is why I need automation so that all the systems talk to each other, respond intelligently to each other and are easy to control from a single interface.

wow! who is your integrator? I've had control4 for 8yrs never knew this is possible. 

I have  a steam shower, how does it connect? I have a mr. steam.  would love to also connect to my jacuzzi that's wifi connected, marquis. is that possible? your rules seem pretty amazing. the door tied to lighting, what sensors are you using to trigger that? 

[Neo1738]

11 hours ago, gadgetfreak said:

wow! who is your integrator? I've had control4 for 8yrs never knew this is possible. 

I have  a steam shower, how does it connect? I have a mr. steam.  would love to also connect to my jacuzzi that's wifi connected, marquis. is that possible? your rules seem pretty amazing. the door tied to lighting, what sensors are you using to trigger that? 

I use alarm contact sensors to program off of for lighting. Open garage door to mud room and both garage and mudroom lights come on a 15 min timer, open the large garage door lights go on in garage, etc. So many options most people don't automate and just control mostly. When you start getting to this level it's night and day difference. My wife just the other day finally said she gets it and it is really super helpful to have all the automation we do (she's not a techie and let me get a robust c4 system out of love lol).