SnapAV buying C4

[terminaldisclaimer]

1 hour ago, msgreenf said:

The funny part of the statement is that expanding it their current customer base is still dealers. With tons of overlap

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
 

I think you misunderstood my post or perhaps, more likely, I just wasn’t that clear. Becoming a dealer for SnapAV is way less stringent than Control4. They don’t have nearly the same requirements. My point about consumers having access was that there is increased likelihood they will know someone who has a SnapAV account because there are way way more Snap dealers. For example, I know several people that would easily give me access. 

Now am I making an assumption?  Sure, but I don’t think it is a giant one. It’s simply that Snap will open up Control4 to its current dealer base. I think that is a pretty reasonable outcome here, and in my opinion, the most likely one. If I’m right, no matter how you specifically think that will affect Control4 dealers, it’s going to increase competition, which isn’t positive news for current dealers.

And even if I’m ultimately wrong in my underlying assumption, I think my underlying point still stands—this isn’t good news for current dealers. My assumption about Snap opening up the dealer base is at least a potential outcome that dealers didn’t need to worry about yesterday. For that reason, I would say this is bad news for dealers

 

 

[msgreenf]

That makes more sense. Thanks for clarifying

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[knowitall]

56 minutes ago, terminaldisclaimer said:

I think you misunderstood my post or perhaps, more likely, I just wasn’t that clear. Becoming a dealer for SnapAV is way less stringent than Control4. They don’t have nearly the same requirements. My point about consumers having access was that there is increased likelihood they will know someone who has a SnapAV account because there are way way more Snap dealers. For example, I know several people that would easily give me access. 

Now am I making an assumption?  Sure, but I don’t think it is a giant one. It’s simply that Snap will open up Control4 to its current dealer base. I think that is a pretty reasonable outcome here, and in my opinion, the most likely one. If I’m right, no matter how you specifically think that will affect Control4 dealers, it’s going to increase competition, which isn’t positive news for current dealers.

And even if I’m ultimately wrong in my underlying assumption, I think my underlying point still stands—this isn’t good news for current dealers. My assumption about Snap opening up the dealer base is at least a potential outcome that dealers didn’t need to worry about yesterday. For that reason, I would say this is bad news for dealers

 

 

I completely agree with this. Thanks for typing it out. 

50 pro licenses per dealer is enough to go around. 

 

Hell, even becoming a C4 dealer isn’t that hard. I’m pretty sure about 5 people didn’t pass the training when I was in class. And you got tech II crammed in as well sharing a 300

[Cyknight]

3 hours ago, knowitall said:

If this goes through, Mark my words, snap AV and their rack builder tool will be delivering fully built and wired up racks to your door. Just gotta put in the modem / cable boxes / streaming devices.  They’ll probably even pre configure the network  

Wonder how much a snap rack builder will get paid. 

You realize C4 sold pre-built racks once upon a time right?

[jamesc4]

Don’t know what to think anymore with C4

To me C4 a great company but seems to always buy companies out for their teams like Neeo.

But why all these sudden moves , seems they can’t “control” themselves:)

every few months something else.

 

 

 

[zaphod]

14 hours ago, Cyknight said:

Oh yes, the goal would be to try and get Snap (or to be exact the company owning Snap) to pay more - not to stop it.

Or to get someone else to bid at a higher price.

SnapAV is owned by a PE firm called Hellman & Friedman that has become quite large .  They purchased Snap from another PE firm called General Atlantic in 2017.  General Atlantic bought SnapAV in 2013.  H&F are likely the ones driving the bus on acquisitions like this as they are providing the $ for the transaction.  The way that PE firms work is that they like to buy firms on the cheap, grow their earnings and sell them off within five or so years.  H&F bought Snap in 2017 so they likely want to grow earnings at Snap/C4 and may bolt on some other companies as well.  Then they will look to sell around 2022, or perhaps a bit sooner or later depending on market conditions.

[Gary Leeds UK]

I take assume SnapAV have no international locations.

so they will get growth from these markets for there products and also open up a 

new t of dealers. 

This will also generates leakage if Overseas C4 dealers do not like what they see.

interesting times

[Thepritch88]

Snap are associated with some distributers in the UK. 

 

[RAV]

Over populating with dealers is THE fear. Follow up email states not to be concerned with dilution, time will tell.

And it's been done to other brands and doesn't work at this level (Savant comes to mind, Phast before them). I'll trust they know industry history.

Don't loose site that Control4 is much more than a control system, it's has great people and tech in Pakedge, Leaf, ihiji, that will improve existing products. Also a premier custom speaker maker in Triad. And talent from Neeo to Amazon.

Some of the best talent in the industry, just got together with a bunch of money and infrastructure. Also, attention can return to innovation rather than bureaucracy of being a public company.

Here's to being optimistic, with great tools to work with against the mass that is IoT.

[blub]

Over populating with dealers is THE fear. Follow up email states not to be concerned with dilution, time will tell.
And it's been done to other brands and doesn't work at this level (Savant comes to mind, Phast before them). I'll trust they know industry history.
Don't loose site that Control4 is much more than a control system, it's has great people and tech in Pakedge, Leaf, ihiji, that will improve existing products. Also a premier custom speaker maker in Triad. And talent from Neeo to Amazon.
Some of the best talent in the industry, just got together with a bunch of money and infrastructure. Also, attention can return to innovation rather than bureaucracy of being a public company.
Here's to being optimistic, with great tools to work with against the mass that is IoT.

What happened to Savant?


I really hope they manage it better than HL and bring innovation back

[RAV]

43 minutes ago, blub said:

What happened to Savant?


I really hope they manage it better than HL and bring innovation back

Savant's changing paths of $500 DIY remote, dealer levels of access to product, direct, distribution

[Max Stout]

This thread is like Instagram comments with all the assumptions lol.  Sale isn't final - in the contract there is a 30 day opening to allow a bigger bid to come in and mess this deal up. All this means is, better integration products and Control4 may be available at Voluetone for Control4 dealers - it will not be an open market for trunk slammers

[Max Stout]

8 hours ago, RAV said:

Over populating with dealers is THE fear. Follow up email states not to be concerned with dilution, time will tell.

And it's been done to other brands and doesn't work at this level (Savant comes to mind, Phast before them). I'll trust they know industry history.

Don't loose site that Control4 is much more than a control system, it's has great people and tech in Pakedge, Leaf, ihiji, that will improve existing products. Also a premier custom speaker maker in Triad. And talent from Neeo to Amazon.

Some of the best talent in the industry, just got together with a bunch of money and infrastructure. Also, attention can return to innovation rather than bureaucracy of being a public company.

Here's to being optimistic, with great tools to work with against the mass that is IoT.

PHAST - wasn't that Control4 before it became Control4 and it sucked so bad they dissolved and came back with Control4?  PHAST, wow...blast to the past!!  Being almost 60, I remember when this came out.  lol...thanks for the trip down memory lane.

[blub]

PHAST - wasn't that Control4 before it became Control4 and it sucked so bad they dissolved and came back with Control4?  PHAST, wow...blast to the past!!  Being almost 60, I remember when this came out.  lol...thanks for the trip down memory lane.

To that list I can add the icommand system , boy was that a piece if work...

[RyanE]

21 hours ago, Max Stout said:

PHAST - wasn't that Control4 before it became Control4 and it sucked so bad they dissolved and came back with Control4?  PHAST, wow...blast to the past!!  Being almost 60, I remember when this came out.  lol...thanks for the trip down memory lane.

No, Phast was started by AMX, funded as an internal project, although they competed with AMX on residential installations.

It had it's good points (the installer software was very forward-thinking), and it's bad points (early dimmers).

AMX closed down the Phast shop in SLC in 2000, and moved it all in-house in Richardson, TX, before shuttering it a year or few later.

RyanE

[RAV]

PHAST was a project from Eric and Will, with funding in part from AMX, to get a foot into the resi market, remember it was all commercial automation at this time. Or the affordable Niles Intellicontrol, $1200 button remotes! Ahh, the time of $5000 touch screens.

Lots of factors; rushed, tons of ambition, daisy changed LV wired for control light switches, and the Dot.Com explosion.

Money was being burned, systems blowing up from lighting strikes, decision to expand into the Internet and rebrand as PANJA (which turns out is Japanese for wood). Well, to save face, lawsuits, who knows, AMX sucks it up and brings it all back in house, Eric and Will get a non-compete, and it quietly dissolves into bad memories.

The keypad for the time were amazing, well it you didn't try and take the face off after you installed it (glued like 20 pin connector). And if you stuck to audio based systems, there are some that are still functional to this day. But the lighting.... upto 30 (ok 20, no max 10) in wall light switches daisy chained with CAT5 for control, ALL wired back to a central hub; with keypads, controllers, audio processors all sharing the same bus structure. And then, the dragon strikes (lighting). Kaboom.

https://www.residentialsystems.com/features/back-in-the-phast-lane

[blub]

3 hours ago, RAV said:

PHAST was a project from Eric and Will, with funding in part from AMX, to get a foot into the resi market, remember it was all commercial automation at this time. Or the affordable Niles Intellicontrol, $1200 button remotes! Ahh, the time of $5000 touch screens.

Lots of factors; rushed, tons of ambition, daisy changed LV wired for control light switches, and the Dot.Com explosion.

Money was being burned, systems blowing up from lighting strikes, decision to expand into the Internet and rebrand as PANJA (which turns out is Japanese for wood). Well, to save face, lawsuits, who knows, AMX sucks it up and brings it all back in house, Eric and Will get a non-compete, and it quietly dissolves into bad memories.

The keypad for the time were amazing, well it you didn't try and take the face off after you installed it (glued like 20 pin connector). And if you stuck to audio based systems, there are some that are still functional to this day. But the lighting.... upto 30 (ok 20, no max 10) in wall light switches daisy chained with CAT5 for control, ALL wired back to a central hub; with keypads, controllers, audio processors all sharing the same bus structure. And then, the dragon strikes (lighting). Kaboom.

https://www.residentialsystems.com/features/back-in-the-phast-lane

Sounds like an era of fun

But anyone who wired Cat5 to any light switch probably did never regret that decision !

[RyanE]

Apart from the 1st gen lighting (whose issues were mostly resolved by the 'Swimmer' generation dimmers), the products were pretty solid, and PhastLink (as a protocol and transport) worked extremely well.

It blew a lot of other systems out of the water at the time.

RyanE

[lukas.polivka]

20 hours ago, RAV said:

PANJA (which turns out is Japanese for wood)

No it's not.

https://jisho.org/search/panja

(The name listed there is not even a proper Japanese name, might be some Korean-Japanese or Sino-Japanese, dunno.)

[tdougray]

Interesting read 

 

https://www.residentialsystems.com/blogs/analysis-control4-and-snapav-complete-merger