Help and Feedback re: Getting Rid of Control4

[Control4Savant]

17 hours ago, Andrew luecke said:

It will of course be bias here, but as others have mentioned, OS3 is a whole different ballgame, and there is a huge amount of development at Control4 that seems to be happening in the background too. 

You can use Composer Home for a lot of changes too without an installer. The business model makes a lot of sense for Premium residential / commercia

What would you change?

There's been lots of recent major improvements including OS3. Also, which poorly developed hardware specifically? 

Just about everything? 

The power user group here might concede to needing a windows PC and a required lic. to very old software for an high end expensive system but that isn't acceptable with the majority and upcoming younger professionals and its NOT because it's managed/dealer isolated system...

OS3 design is also a decade behind its competition and still lacks other basic features or advanced options. Composer Pro/HE is a pretty ridiculous software to be using in 2021. JoshAI is no longer just a feature to a larger smart home and will make more progress into the full system integration with actual hardware controllers. Crestron UI and product design has been the standard constantly for over 20 years. There is a large DYI community and installation/programming has always been achievable by committee especially now with Crestron Home.  Go download the Savant Pro app and run the demo mode. Not only is it a far more advanced interface but you can do the majority of c4 user requested programming directly from the client app UI including things like keypad button programming, custom scene and scheduling creation (Savant custom scenes are ALL parts of the system... lighting, security, HVAC, entertainment etc..) complete individual user customization (room access, global and user only scenes, global and user only favorites, system user administration,  custom notifications etc.) 

Hardware? Limited hardware options and cutting edge tech, touchscreens have been problematic for the last 2 generations, the C4 remotes have been out of date for a decade compared to the direct competitors and the Neeo (while a huge improvement) is still a mess. The majority of the suggested 3rd party hardware people use with Control4 are fully supported by other brands while also offering better native solutions.  

Snap also just announced they are going public which IMO won't help anything.

[Amr]

29 minutes ago, Control4Sucks said:

Just about everything? 

The power user group here might concede to needing a windows PC and a required lic. to very old software for an high end expensive system but that isn't acceptable with the majority and upcoming younger professionals and its NOT because it's managed/dealer isolated system...

OS3 design is also a decade behind its competition and still lacks other basic features or advanced options. Composer Pro/HE is a pretty ridiculous software to be using in 2021. JoshAI is no longer just a feature to a larger smart home and will make more progress into the full system integration with actual hardware controllers. Crestron UI and product design has been the standard constantly for over 20 years. There is a large DYI community and installation/programming has always been achievable by committee especially now with Crestron Home.  Go download the Savant Pro app and run the demo mode. Not only is it a far more advanced interface but you can do the majority of c4 user requested programming directly from the client app UI including things like keypad button programming, custom scene and scheduling creation (Savant custom scenes are ALL parts of the system... lighting, security, HVAC, entertainment etc..) complete individual user customization (room access, global and user only scenes, global and user only favorites, system user administration,  custom notifications etc.) 

Hardware? Limited hardware options and cutting edge tech, touchscreens have been problematic for the last 2 generations, the C4 remotes have been out of date for a decade compared to the direct competitors and the Neeo (while a huge improvement) is still a mess. The majority of the suggested 3rd party hardware people use with Control4 are fully supported by other brands while also offering better native solutions.  

Snap also just announced they are going public which IMO won't help anything.

Yes, but it’s a taste thing, the market is wide open, every one choses what suites them. I went with Control4 because of the “decade” behind GUI ur are referring too, I love AppleTV interface, but I don’t go to Roku’s forums and tell them it suck!

[msgreenf]

why are we still talking about this dude that has ghosted?

[Control4Savant]

1 hour ago, Amr said:

Yes, but it’s a taste thing, the market is wide open, every one choses what suites them. I went with Control4 because of the “decade” behind GUI ur are referring too, I love AppleTV interface, but I don’t go to Roku’s forums and tell them it suck!

You also didn't spend likely $5k+ for a Roku or have a professional sell you it potentially promise the world as the best system. I listed features people regularly complain about, request and assume are already inherently part of a "pro" system. Stop saying its taste. How the sliders look or where you can access the temperature is taste. Even on that argument, Control4 has made UI changes to OS3 follow what its competitors have done, the keypads and penalized lighting are the standard industry design and the "new" remote was from someone else. I cant speak honestly about the availably of other systems in your area and I am happy you enjoy the C4 UI. We're not taking about Elan here.... which all hot takes aside is garbage. We're talking about Control4 no longer being the best of the good systems. 

 

59 minutes ago, msgreenf said:

why are we still talking about this dude that has ghosted?

Seriously? It's a forum... its a conversation. Look at how much activity is on the rest of the site.  Again with the "only blessed control4" conversation bs. 

[msgreenf]

2 minutes ago, Control4Sucks said:

Seriously? It's a forum... its a conversation. Look at how much activity is on the rest of the site.  Again with the "only blessed control4" conversation bs

I was referring to the people trying to talk about this one person - we can talk about anything we want...

[Cyknight]

2 hours ago, Control4Sucks said:

Again with the "only blessed control4" conversation bs. 

Again with the constant chest thumping at a 'threat' that doesn't exist.

If you really want to make a point, stop using the 'I'm being silenced' excuse - it makes one look like a toddler screaming about not getting one's way.

[OceanDad]

4 hours ago, Control4Sucks said:

especially now with Crestron Home.

I'd be genuinely interested in the hands-on experience of a dealer/programmer who has a good amount of experience on both platforms.  When I first looked at Crestron Home in 2019, the support for different devices was really poor.  I know it's improved since then, but not sure how much/what the roadmap looks like.  I did like the UI, but I didn't spend that much time with it.

[Amr]

7 hours ago, Control4Sucks said:

You also didn't spend likely $5k+ for a Roku or have a professional sell you it potentially promise the world as the best system. I listed features people regularly complain about, request and assume are already inherently part of a "pro" system. Stop saying its taste. How the sliders look or where you can access the temperature is taste. Even on that argument, Control4 has made UI changes to OS3 follow what its competitors have done, the keypads and penalized lighting are the standard industry design and the "new" remote was from someone else. I cant speak honestly about the availably of other systems in your area and I am happy you enjoy the C4 UI. We're not taking about Elan here.... which all hot takes aside is garbage. We're talking about Control4 no longer being the best of the good systems. 

 

Seriously? It's a forum... its a conversation. Look at how much activity is on the rest of the site.  Again with the "only blessed control4" conversation bs. 

Well this is your opinion, people tend to agree or disagree, why you are wasting your energy yelling and disgusted from C4, change it and come here tell us what you had migrated too and we are missing

[ejn1]

10 hours ago, Control4Sucks said:

Just about everything? 

The power user group here might concede to needing a windows PC and a required lic. to very old software for an high end expensive system but that isn't acceptable with the majority and upcoming younger professionals and its NOT because it's managed/dealer isolated system...

OS3 design is also a decade behind its competition and still lacks other basic features or advanced options. Composer Pro/HE is a pretty ridiculous software to be using in 2021. JoshAI is no longer just a feature to a larger smart home and will make more progress into the full system integration with actual hardware controllers. Crestron UI and product design has been the standard constantly for over 20 years. There is a large DYI community and installation/programming has always been achievable by committee especially now with Crestron Home.  Go download the Savant Pro app and run the demo mode. Not only is it a far more advanced interface but you can do the majority of c4 user requested programming directly from the client app UI including things like keypad button programming, custom scene and scheduling creation (Savant custom scenes are ALL parts of the system... lighting, security, HVAC, entertainment etc..) complete individual user customization (room access, global and user only scenes, global and user only favorites, system user administration,  custom notifications etc.) 

Hardware? Limited hardware options and cutting edge tech, touchscreens have been problematic for the last 2 generations, the C4 remotes have been out of date for a decade compared to the direct competitors and the Neeo (while a huge improvement) is still a mess. The majority of the suggested 3rd party hardware people use with Control4 are fully supported by other brands while also offering better native solutions.  

Snap also just announced they are going public which IMO won't help anything.

Just curious why you take so much time and energy to steer folks away from Control4?   You have some smart angles in your posts but just curious why you spend so much time and energy to crap all over another brand.  Are you a consumer advocate making it your mission in life to help us stand clear of C4 or a dealer advocate trying to help others move away from the dark side?  I myself have not been shy to state if I don't like something (eg Neeo), but I also recognize the many good features of the system.   It just seems lately that if there is any form of a critical post / thread on C4, your Bat phone glows red and you come to the thread with vigor   My guess is that just like the ghost OP,  there is some story where C4 has pissed you off and it still stings and you have a mission to be a thorn in their side.   No offense meant just amazed at the energy you put into these type of threads.       

[ekohn00]

I find it funny that I didn't see anyone suggest Control4Sucks is probably an Elan dealer trying in the oddest way to create business.......

I would think anyone who had problems with C4 wouldn't spend a year on a board bitching and moaning...got to get on with life.

[msgreenf]

1 minute ago, ekohn00 said:

I find it funny that I didn't see anyone suggest Control4Sucks is probably an Elan dealer trying in the oddest way to create business.......

I would think anyone who had problems with C4 wouldn't spend a year on a board bitching and moaning...got to get on with life.

I mean don't most Mercedes dealers spend time on BMW forum's? 

[wnpublic]

13 hours ago, ejn1 said:

 My guess is that just like the ghost OP,  there is some story where C4 has pissed you off and it still stings and you have a mission to be a thorn in their side.   No offense meant just amazed at the energy you put into these type of threads.       

 

3 hours ago, ekohn00 said:

I find it funny that I didn't see anyone suggest Control4Sucks is probably an Elan dealer trying in the oddest way to create business.......

Isn't the simplest explanation that frequent posters here who have mixed or negative things to say are people with a sunk investment in an expensive system they find lacking (sometimes bafflingly so) but are unwilling to walk away and just rip it out?  It's certainly true for me - so i come here to learn how others are dealing with common issues, post something useful where i can, and correct some BS where I see it.

The funniest thing about this forum is the inability of people to conceive that C4 is other than awesome, and so anyone who thinks otherwise must be trying to sell Elan, or maybe C4 f*cked their wife.  Maybe that's the deniers' own investment (in being a dealer, in the system itself) creating cognitive dissonance.  Or maybe they are genuinely thrilled with their system, so great.  But nobody has actually denied that Composer HE time traveled from 2002, Neeo is a hot mess, it's not one app it's two or three on iOS, the camera integration is pathetic, etc. etc.  They are just mad at someone for his posting name and for his attitude. 

I have no defense for some dude who creates an account, posts something nasty, then ghosts.

[msgreenf]

Control4sucks dude has said he is Elan dealer...so I take that on face value 

[wnpublic]

14 minutes ago, msgreenf said:

Control4sucks dude has said he is Elan dealer...so I take that on face value 

Really?  I think he said it is garbage.  Oh well.

[ejn1]

58 minutes ago, wnpublic said:

 

Isn't the simplest explanation that frequent posters here who have mixed or negative things to say are people with a sunk investment in an expensive system they find lacking (sometimes bafflingly so) but are unwilling to walk away and just rip it out?  It's certainly true for me - so i come here to learn how others are dealing with common issues, post something useful where i can, and correct some BS where I see it.

 

If you think above is what this thread is about,  then I have some land to sell you in Florida.   I agree that folks should be able to have balanced discussions plus and minus but they have to be balanced.   When someone ghosts or changes there name like that, it becomes a case of someone making it a personal mission to be a thorn and that doesn't benefit a wider forum, imho. 

Every forum has fans of a brand,  C4 is no different but as a consumer I welcome balance which I think this forum is just as good as any other I've been on for that.

[wnpublic]

1 minute ago, ejn1 said:

If you think above is what this thread is about,  then I have some land to sell you in Florida.  

Right, i must be gullible to think this.  The sickness i've described seems strong in you.

[eggzlot]

Usually a forum for a specific product is mostly filled with enthusiasts as most people like to chat about things they like - not hate.  So yes - "groupthink" for a forum based on a product will tend to like the product - duh.

No one is saying Control4 is 100% perfect.  On this forum I've complained about the DS1, issues with the current lighting equipment and backlighting and a few other odds and ends.  I do not own a Neeo but given the cost/features I wouldn't even consider a used one.  Though OS3 is an improvement it is not as nice as Savant.

So I don't think people here have blinders.  Some people may have an ego and trying to rationalize their investment in the platform but for others, with warts and all, we see it as the best solution "for us".  For someone recently who posted asking if C4 was right for them, most of the forum replied no, go with Home Assistant.  That was fairly unbiased, no?

I think what it boils down to is recently there are a lot of "new people" who complain and/or ask for advice then never come back.  Maybe they are real, maybe they are fake, who knows, and most importantly, who cares.  I think there should be a sticky in these forums and there should be a newbie sticky, a I moved into a Home with C4 sticky and a How do I get rid of C4 sticky - but that is just my two cents.

[Control4Savant]

51 minutes ago, msgreenf said:

Control4sucks dude has said he is Elan dealer...so I take that on face value 

No.. I have never said that. In fact I did just recently said Elan is a pile of hot st.  We seem to have a lot of retention issues here. 

36 minutes ago, wnpublic said:

Really?  I think he said it is garbage.  Oh well.

 

5 hours ago, msgreenf said:

I mean don't most Mercedes dealers spend time on BMW forum's? 

Someone who sells both BMW and  Merc. maybe... 

5 hours ago, ekohn00 said:

I find it funny that I didn't see anyone suggest Control4Sucks is probably an Elan dealer trying in the oddest way to create business.......

I would think anyone who had problems with C4 wouldn't spend a year on a board bitching and moaning...got to get on with life.

Again.. since i am not on here praising contro4 i should "move on with life". Thanks for proving my point. 

15 hours ago, ejn1 said:

Just curious why you take so much time and energy to steer folks away from Control4?   You have some smart angles in your posts but just curious why you spend so much time and energy to crap all over another brand.  Are you a consumer advocate making it your mission in life to help us stand clear of C4 or a dealer advocate trying to help others move away from the dark side?  I myself have not been shy to state if I don't like something (eg Neeo), but I also recognize the many good features of the system.   It just seems lately that if there is any form of a critical post / thread on C4, your Bat phone glows red and you come to the thread with vigor   My guess is that just like the ghost OP,  there is some story where C4 has pissed you off and it still stings and you have a mission to be a thorn in their side.   No offense meant just amazed at the energy you put into these type of threads.       

I spend like a few hours of my week on this website so I am not sure why there is so much perception that I am emotional or committing countless hours of my time on some sacred mission. I can certainly replay to every post made with get rid of Control4 or Savant is better etc.. but I don't. When conversations come up that discuss other systems, options or brand supuriortiy I chime in at times because Iv handle multiple brands professionally over their existence which combined with the service first non-dealer mentality I try to bring to my projects, gives me a unique viewpoint. I don't force feed the issue, these conversations progress into this regularly because of the mentality I am talking about and it will just drive users away from this site, Control4 users from the brand and the overall idea that a pro system is better will continue to have problems. As a career long professional I care about setting the facts straight for everyone. Take it how you would like. 

People being irritated with my name change also brings about my point. 

[South Africa C4 user]

2 hours ago, wnpublic said:

Really?  I think he said it is garbage.  Oh well.

That sounds like Wap alright... o yes, and that sounds like Wap... Lots of Wapping going on at present...

[ejn1]

2 hours ago, wnpublic said:

Right, i must be gullible to think this.  The sickness i've described seems strong in you.

What sickness is that?   I want to make sure I get the medicine to address it.   Check my posts,   I’m not one sided and drunken with C4 but I also don’t have an axe to grind or a hidden agenda.   If you are only still in C4 due to your sunk costs,  then sell your stuff.  There is an excellent liquid market for used C4 gear on this forum and eBay for anything near current.  Another independent marker for how the general public feel about a particular brand.

[wnpublic]

10 minutes ago, South Africa C4 user said:

That sounds like Wap alright... o yes, and that sounds like Wap... Lots of Wapping going on at present...

The sickness again - "no one sane could possibly have complaints.  The guy who used to come on to the site complained, he was crazy!  So these other people with complaints must be him too."  It's the same disease that prevents others from accepting the election results here in the U.S.

[eggzlot]

18 minutes ago, wnpublic said:

The sickness again - "no one sane could possibly have complaints.  The guy who used to come on to the site complained, he was crazy!  So these other people with complaints must be him too."  It's the same disease that prevents others from accepting the election results here in the U.S.

he complained about the "HDMI cartel" and how C4 should make a streaming box to compete with Roku, Apple TV, Fire Tv, Chromecast, etc.

He is/was well, unique to say the least.

Its funny trying to recall his posts not sure if he was anti c4 as a platform or just anti "stuff".  either way as time passes so does my memory of good ol Wap's posts.

Its perfectly ok to post some negative stuff here, C4 has its warts.  its just odd to stick around to only post negative stuff I think is what some people believe.  

[wnpublic]

Just now, eggzlot said:

he complained about the "HDMI cartel" and how C4 should make a streaming box to compete with Roku, Apple TV, Fire Tv, Chromecast, etc.

He is/was well, unique to say the least.

Its funny trying to recall his posts not sure if he was anti c4 as a platform or just anti "stuff".  either way as time passes so does my memory of good ol Wap's posts.

Its perfectly ok to post some negative stuff here, C4 has its warts.  its just odd to stick around to only post negative stuff I think is what some people believe.  

I don't remember perfectly, but he did have a lot of views also about opening up the platform.  But yes it was all wrapped up in stuff like the hdmi cartel.  cheers

[eggzlot]

1 minute ago, wnpublic said:

I don't remember perfectly, but he did have a lot of views also about opening up the platform.  But yes it was all wrapped up in stuff like the hdmi cartel.  cheers

i think all end users on this site want the platform to "open up" more.  I wouldn't be shocked if some dealers would be happier if a customer could enter their own new TV and swap it from an older TV.  I cannot believe there is much margin in that work for dealers (hence the online dealer but that is another story) even if they get to sell the TV and then do the C4 binding/install.

But when you hijack every thread about opening up the platform and the HDMI cartel....you become Wap

again I think most of this could easily be solved by some sticky's here on the forum.  Have an entire one dedicated to ideas about opening up the platform. stickys for new users, stickys for people moving into a home with c4 and what are their options, etc.  there could even been a static first post in that sticky that the admins keep relevant as new hardware is released, older stuff has to be removed, etc.  its a little work but I think would keep things way more civilized 

cheers

[istreich]

+1 on the sticky idea. I made a similar suggestion a couple of days ago. Helping new Control4 owners navigate their new system is a no brainer. It would be good for everyone (Control4, installers, users and of course new owner!). I am sure it will be controversial but maybe reference a few (vetted) online programmers who would commit to a one-time fixed fee to transfer ownership of the system and offer basic training. Most people, when they buy a house with a Control4 system, have zero clue what to expect (features, cost, programing....). Having a place where you can get access to a few honest and reliable pros who can help them start could be priceless. That first impression with Control4 stays with you for a long time. 

Now, for the negative comments about Control4, nothing is perfect. But some people will use their time to make constructive comments to improve things and help other. Others will use it to be negative without offering constructive solutions. I keep on going back to this forum as most members and visitors are in the former category - help (each other) make things better and have a great experience. I am grateful for all the advice I have received and allowed me to go from a skeptic to a happy user who constantly improves my family experience