Do NOT buy from BLACKWIRE

[fleon]

Here's a heads up- don't buy from Blackwire.  Here's my current situation:

- I am moving from an EA5 to a CA10.   My old dealer doesn't work in this area anymore, so I have a new dealer.

- Blackwire has their own driver authentication system (that's not unusual).

- Blackwire refuses to move my driver license from my old dealer to my new dealer.

 

So, in a nutshell,  anyone in my situation is out all the money they've spent on Blackwire drivers. I confirmed this would be true in the following situations:

-old dealer dies.  You are out of luck

-moving to new hardware when old hardware fails.  Out of luck

 

This is insane.  Their claim that "the dealer owns the license" ignores whole swaths of third-party beneficiary law.  In a situation where they even acknowledge that the dealer isn't the intended beneficiary, they still claim that the end-user doesn't matter.  This is ridiculous.  Thank god I don't own a ton of Blackwire drivers.  If I did - or if any of you do - I'd be out all the money I've spent on them.

Their solution?  "Buy all your drivers, that you have paid for, again". 

I've been told by several dealers that the owner of Blackwire is a dick. No kidding. 

 

 

[Liam from Wales]

But you didn't buy the driver from Blackwire, the dealer did, right?  This is like showing up at Target with a receipt from Walmart and asking for a refund on something somebody else bought.  I see your point of view but if you are not a Control4 dealer, employee of a dealer, employee of Control4, etc, you shouldn't have access to Composer or any drivers, pretty sure that's a violation of the dealer agreement

[fleon]

Please go look up third-party beneficiaries.   

IAAL.

[fleon]

Just now, fleon said:

Please go look up third-party beneficiaries.   

IAAL.

Also, I'm NOT asking for access to the driver.  I am asking them to move my license to a new dealer. 

 

[Köhler Medientechnik]

Did you approach your old dealer to support in this case?

I´d expect there´s a way to transfer a license to a new dealer. But that should be driven by your old dealer. If he´s not willing to support here, he´s the one to blame, here IMHO because that´s not a proper way to phase out old customers/projects.

[Cyknight]

Hmpf.

Sounds like there's something going on in the background that isn't mentioned - we've never had any issues dealing with Blackwire (or the owner).

[Liam from Wales]

3 minutes ago, Köhler Medientechnik said:

Did you approach your old dealer to support in this case?

I´d expect there´s a way to transfer a license to a new dealer. But that should be driven by your old dealer. If he´s not willing to support here, he´s the one to blame, here IMHO because that´s not a proper way to phase out old customers/projects.

100%

[LollerAgent]

36 minutes ago, fleon said:

Here's a heads up- don't buy from Blackwire.  Here's my current situation:

- I am moving from an EA5 to a CA10.   My old dealer doesn't work in this area anymore, so I have a new dealer.

- Blackwire has their own driver authentication system (that's not unusual).

- Blackwire refuses to move my driver license from my old dealer to my new dealer.

 

So, in a nutshell,  anyone in my situation is out all the money they've spent on Blackwire drivers. I confirmed this would be true in the following situations:

-old dealer dies.  You are out of luck

-moving to new hardware when old hardware fails.  Out of luck

I can see how this is very frustrating for you.  I wouldn't be happy.  

Does your old dealer no longer have a BW account?  Seems like he should be able to help you out..  

[fleon]

9 minutes ago, Köhler Medientechnik said:

Did you approach your old dealer to support in this case?

I´d expect there´s a way to transfer a license to a new dealer. But that should be driven by your old dealer. If he´s not willing to support here, he´s the one to blame, here IMHO because that´s not a proper way to phase out old customers/projects.

My old dealer is not in business anymore, as far as I can tell.  They moved to another state from what I understand and I have no working contact info. 

[fleon]

9 minutes ago, Cyknight said:

Hmpf.

Sounds like there's something going on in the background that isn't mentioned - we've never had any issues dealing with Blackwire (or the owner).

Such as?  Regardless of anything "going on" this is not the way to treat a customer. 

Also, this is not industry standard.  None of the other driver sites have had any issues moving my drivers.  

[thecodeman]

2 hours ago, fleon said:

Such as?  Regardless of anything "going on" this is not the way to treat a customer. 

Also, this is not industry standard.  None of the other driver sites have had any issues moving my drivers.  

Does your new dealer have an account with BlackWire? If so, they should be in touch with them, not you, the homeowner. If they do not, they will have to get an account first even if the key would be changed. BlackWire is a wholesale distributor and doesn't work with end-users on support issues.

[therockhr]

3 hours ago, Liam from Wales said:

But you didn't buy the driver from Blackwire, the dealer did, right?  This is like showing up at Target with a receipt from Walmart and asking for a refund on something somebody else bought.  I see your point of view but if you are not a Control4 dealer, employee of a dealer, employee of Control4, etc, you shouldn't have access to Composer or any drivers, pretty sure that's a violation of the dealer agreement

I've seen a lot of terrible analogies on here but this might be the most ridiculous.

Why on earth would Blackwire not allow a new dealer to move these drivers to a new controller?

[-defunct-]

2 minutes ago, therockhr said:

I've seen a lot of terrible analogies on here but this might be the most ridiculous.

Why on earth would Blackwire not allow a new dealer to move these drivers to a new controller?

Respect old dealer's rights as their customer. I have heard it before.

[ejn1]

20 minutes ago, therockhr said:

I've seen a lot of terrible analogies on here but this might be the most ridiculous.

Why on earth would Blackwire not allow a new dealer to move these drivers to a new controller?

Agree, it’s ridiculous 

[msgreenf]

3 minutes ago, ejn1 said:

Agree, it’s ridiculous 

Cause how do you authenticate anything?

And the driver is in another dealers account.  The Blackwire driver manager, when properly configured can actually automatically move between controllers without any issues

[therockhr]

12 minutes ago, msgreenf said:

Cause how do you authenticate anything?

And the driver is in another dealers account.  The Blackwire driver manager, when properly configured can actually automatically move between controllers without any issues

Then why didnt Blackwire tell the new dealer this? why are they saying he has to purchase another driver? Are they punishing the end user because the new dealer isnt a blackwire customer?

How can you all defend this?

[RyanE]

1 minute ago, therockhr said:

How can you all defend this?

I won't defend or condemn anything that I hear from a single side, and I expect the same from most others.

This is a single anecdote.  Take it for what it's worth.

RyanE

[ejn1]

25 minutes ago, msgreenf said:

Cause how do you authenticate anything?

And the driver is in another dealers account.  The Blackwire driver manager, when properly configured can actually automatically move between controllers without any issues

I guess my thinking is if the customer has a valid license key then that is enough?

[ekohn00]

If you check the Blackwire site:

 

SOFTWARE UPDATE & SUPPORT POLICY

Software license purchases includes support for 1 year from date of purchase. This support includes phone, email, chat, ticket assistance. If you require support after 1 year a 25% fee of the current price may be required to provide assistance. 

Purchasing a software license does not guarantee free updates to the latest version. The license you are purchasing include support for the version of automation system listed in the release notes on the day of purchase. If a future automation software update is released there is no guarantee the license you are purchasing will be transferred and supported. You are responsible for checking if the software license purchased is compatible with the OS you are updating your projects to. 

Each license purchased belongs to the original purchaser. Licenses can be transferred between dealer accounts at the sole discretion of BlackWire and a fee may be required to do so. A minimum 25% fee of the drivers current purchase price may be incurred if you are requesting a large number of licenses to be transferred. 

 

Like most every SW company, I'd assume if you can prove the license is in your name and legit, they'd move it. Is it possible your old dealer sold you a copy that was registered in his name and there's no trail of ownership?

[eggzlot]

havent had this experience before but it is lame.  If a dealer sold me a Sonos speaker and it failed I could go to Sonos with the receipt for service, no?  I guess its tricky where BW sees the integrator as the customer and I am not against the dealer model but yeah to me a driver should stay with the home owner, not the dealer.  If a dealer goes belly up its not fair for BW to charge a customer just to move a license over to a new dealer.  

that said I've had issues with other drivers which is why when possible, especially for anything critical, I try to get hardware with native c4 support.  I tend to only use 3rd party drivers for "fun" things.

[-defunct-]

1 hour ago, ekohn00 said:

Like most every SW company, I'd assume if you can prove the license is in your name and legit, they'd move it. Is it possible your old dealer sold you a copy that was registered in his name and there's no trail of ownership?

Fairly sure Blackwire only allows purchases by dealers, so original purchaser will always be the installing dealer.

[C4 User]

If I understand this correctly, @Blackwire would allow a dealer to transfer a driver license for 25% of the current price of the driver, so I have to say I find it hard to believe and disappointing that Blackwire is not willing to make an accommodation for @fleon given his dealer is out of business (which should be verifiable by Blackwire). That said, we are only hearing one side of the story and it is likely too late given @fleon took the approach of throwing Blackwire under the bus.

[ejn1]

28 minutes ago, eggzlot said:

havent had this experience before but it is lame.  If a dealer sold me a Sonos speaker and it failed I could go to Sonos with the receipt for service, no?  I guess its tricky where BW sees the integrator as the customer and I am not against the dealer model but yeah to me a driver should stay with the home owner, not the dealer.  If a dealer goes belly up its not fair for BW to charge a customer just to move a license over to a new dealer.  

that said I've had issues with other drivers which is why when possible, especially for anything critical, I try to get hardware with native c4 support.  I tend to only use 3rd party drivers for "fun" things.

These policies certainly aren’t customer focused nor will help sell a lot of drivers….  How else can a customer (the real customer, not a reseller) have a valid license key?   This should be all that’s required to get this resolved.

[Cyknight]

7 hours ago, fleon said:

Such as?  Regardless of anything "going on" this is not the way to treat a customer. 

Also, this is not industry standard.  None of the other driver sites have had any issues moving my drivers.  

Such as.... an issue with your current dealer for example.

[eggzlot]

just curious if DriverCentral or other 3rd party platforms have the same restrictions/fees to move dealers?