Do NOT buy from BLACKWIRE

[Gary Leeds UK]

6 hours ago, ekohn00 said:

If you check the Blackwire site:

 

SOFTWARE UPDATE & SUPPORT POLICY

Software license purchases includes support for 1 year from date of purchase. This support includes phone, email, chat, ticket assistance. If you require support after 1 year a 25% fee of the current price may be required to provide assistance. 

Purchasing a software license does not guarantee free updates to the latest version. The license you are purchasing include support for the version of automation system listed in the release notes on the day of purchase. If a future automation software update is released there is no guarantee the license you are purchasing will be transferred and supported. You are responsible for checking if the software license purchased is compatible with the OS you are updating your projects to. 

Each license purchased belongs to the original purchaser. Licenses can be transferred between dealer accounts at the sole discretion of BlackWire and a fee may be required to do so. A minimum 25% fee of the drivers current purchase price may be incurred if you are requesting a large number of licenses to be transferred. 

 

Like most every SW company, I'd assume if you can prove the license is in your name and legit, they'd move it. Is it possible your old dealer sold you a copy that was registered in his name and there's no trail of ownership?

I was  looking at the Hikvision NVR driver from Blackwire a few years ago

Was told by my then dealer to stay way from them because of issues transferring driver and we have HC800 (So its going to happen at some point)

However looking at the above - Good God that's just crazy - never looking to purchase from them 

[Amr]

4 hours ago, eggzlot said:

just curious if DriverCentral or other 3rd party platforms have the same restrictions/fees to move dealers?  

No

[Amr]

I personally had mixed results dealing with them, they refused to give me the license keys of a driver moved from another site that shuts down and asked me to buy the license again which I totally refused and went elsewhere.

Then, I purchased a license from a dealer, the driver was set with this dealer, afterwords I purchased a new license from another dealer who contacted my first dealer and moved the license through his account!

[JSTRONG]

I have never had a problem moving others purchased drivers to my bw portal. It’s just an email or chat request and it gets done. There was also never a fee charged. 
 

[ekohn00]

11 hours ago, eggzlot said:

just curious if DriverCentral or other 3rd party platforms have the same restrictions/fees to move dealers?  

read the whole sentence...." fee may be required to do so. "

they probably only charge a fee for people who keep flipping the license......

[RAV]

The software was installed on the processor, transaction complete.
If a new processor is purchased, the software moves to it, automatically authenticated.
If a processor fails, a backup file restores software purchased, automatically.

Where's the issue?

You received what you paid for, and no one is taking it away because of a ghosted dealer.
If you add, say additional Shelly units, a different dealer can do so without being a Blackwire dealer or changes to license etc.
Why does who purchased the license, or who's account it's credited to matter?

The only future fault, is if ghost dealer decides to revoke the license, or gets hacked in some way and someone else messes with it.
So, Blackwire, in my opinion, should attempt to reach ghost, and failing to do so, lock out their account from future changes, thus protecting the integrity of the licensing system, and in so doing, also protecting the end users.

 

 

[wnpublic]

The defenses of this model are hilarious...and telling.

[Liam from Wales]

19 hours ago, therockhr said:

Why on earth would Blackwire not allow a new dealer to move these drivers to a new controller?

Because there probably is no "new dealer", this story doesn't make sense.  He's either a homeowner who somehow got Composer on his computer and is trying to go around the entire C4 dealer system and not pay anyone who is actually authorized to open up the software.  

Or he's an ex-employee of a Control4 dealer pretending to be the "homeowner" to drum up some sympathy.  Still has Composer on his computer but no real dealer login anymore, and he hit a road block and can't perform the work he promised.  

If the "new dealer" calls in surely they would transfer the license, even if there was a small fee, why wouldn't they?

[ILoveC4]

I’ll just say that Kevin was been very helpful to me in the past, and aside from occasionally being short and a bit abrasive (things I’m also guilty of) he’s been great to work with. 

[Cyknight]

11 hours ago, wnpublic said:

The defenses of this model are hilarious...and telling.

What model defense? The most common counter is that the story doesnt add up.

 

11 hours ago, Liam from Wales said:

this story doesn't make sense.

While i find it a bit much to go down the lane you went, the story is NOT what I've heard of or experienced with Blackwire at all.

9 hours ago, ILoveC4 said:

and aside from occasionally being short and a bit abrasive

Kevin is Kevin, I disagree that he is, though I can see where it comes from.

In the end he and the company have ALWAYS gone above and beyond.

One way or another, there simply is more to this story than the one-sided original post.

We don't get a LOT of drivers through them (only because a lot of them just don't fall in our usual gear selection), but I'll certainly keep recommending any driver from their site - by themselves or other 3rd party developers.

[Cyknight]

23 hours ago, Gary Leeds UK said:

Was told by my then dealer to stay way from them because of issues transferring driver and we have HC800 (So its going to happen at some point)

THIS is complete bull. It's a simple as it gets to transfer a license to a new (main) controller on the same system by the original dealer. The hardest part is to remember to do it.

 

20 hours ago, Amr said:

they refused to give me the license keys of a driver moved from another site that shuts down and asked me to buy the license again which I totally refused and went elsewhere

Blackwire NEVER controlled the re-licensing of old houselogix drivers - this should have been done through the original developer, all the ones we had were given a 'blackwire' license free of charge.

Unless of course it was one of the drivers THEY re-developed to replace a 'dead' driver from houselogix. In that case, why in the world would they give you a license?

Yes driver central had this handled cleaner for houselogix 3rd party drivers, no argument there, though it has/had it's own restrictions.

 

20 hours ago, Amr said:

Then, I purchased a license from a dealer, the driver was set with this dealer, afterwords I purchased a new license from another dealer who contacted my first dealer and moved the license through his account!

THAT is the dealer's doing, and has nothing to do with Blackwire.

[wnpublic]

1 hour ago, Cyknight said:

What model defense? The most common counter is that the story doesnt add up.

 

While i find it a bit much to go down the lane you went, the story is NOT what I've heard of or experienced with Blackwire at all.

Kevin is Kevin, I disagree that he is, though I can see where it comes from.

In the end he and the company have ALWAYS gone above and beyond.

One way or another, there simply is more to this story than the one-sided original post.

We don't get a LOT of drivers through them (only because a lot of them just don't fall in our usual gear selection), but I'll certainly keep recommending any driver from their site - by themselves or other 3rd party developers.

QED

[Gary Leeds UK]

4 hours ago, Cyknight said:

THIS is complete bull. It's a simple as it gets to transfer a license to a new (main) controller on the same system by the original dealer. The hardest part is to remember to do it.

Sorry that's what I was told 

[South Africa C4 user]

I must say that I have dealt with Blackwire (both via my dealer and directly) and have never experienced any issues.  I have also moved multiple Blackwire licences from an old controller to a new controller and from one account to another account.  Again, never had an issue.

I do have 3 thoughts though:

1. I have run out of popcorn.

2. There must be more to this story.

3. What I am most impressed by (given my opinion under point 2 - and realising it is just an opinion) is that Blackwire have not jumped on the thread and posted endless justifications.  I have absolutely no doubt that they are very aware of the thread (and may even make some statement at some stage, or they may not…).

[RAV]

3 hours ago, South Africa C4 user said:

3. What I am most impressed by (given my opinion under point 2 - and realising it is just an opinion) is that Blackwire have not jumped on the thread and posted endless justifications.  I have absolutely no doubt that they are very aware of the thread (and may even make some statement at some stage, or they may not…).

No need for the fireman after the fire's out.
Stomping around may just cause a new flareup.

[ejn1]

Only additional thought is customers change dealers all the time,  many times not because of the customers being bad or having bad intent.  The process of driver transfer, the administration of it,  the control the dealer has over it, is not very customer friendly or customer centric.   I thought in the driver development business, much of the cost is on the front end in development and the name of the game is getting a lot of sales afer this to recover costs and make a profit...   This does not appear a good way to do it sustainably, imo even if the OP has another backstory.

[msgreenf]

1 minute ago, ejn1 said:

Only additional thought is customers change dealers all the time

I don't think you have any data to back that claim. Most customers never change dealers

[ejn1]

Just now, msgreenf said:

I don't think you have any data to back that claim. Most customers never change dealers

My experience and every friend I have that has had Control4 has changed dealers,  but not a full statistical picture I agree.   I would say this sample in this forum, by very definition, is some of the most committed, best and more giving dealers.   I'm lucky to have one now but this is not the wider sample from my lens on what Joe Consumer faces across the US (wont speak for other countries).

[therockhr]

2 hours ago, RAV said:

No need for the fireman after the fire's out.
Stomping around may just cause a new flareup.

You also don’t usually see an arsonist show up to try and put out a fire they started. 

[Amr]

16 hours ago, Cyknight said:

THIS is complete bull. It's a simple as it gets to transfer a license to a new (main) controller on the same system by the original dealer. The hardest part is to remember to do it.

 

Blackwire NEVER controlled the re-licensing of old houselogix drivers - this should have been done through the original developer, all the ones we had were given a 'blackwire' license free of charge.

Unless of course it was one of the drivers THEY re-developed to replace a 'dead' driver from houselogix. In that case, why in the world would they give you a license?

Yes driver central had this handled cleaner for houselogix 3rd party drivers, no argument there, though it has/had it's own restrictions.

 

THAT is the dealer's doing, and has nothing to do with Blackwire.

Am not complaining at all, I had issue in my first part of my post no this one.

[Cyknight]

18 hours ago, wnpublic said:

QED

Vitium non Culpa

[Cyknight]

15 hours ago, Gary Leeds UK said:

Sorry that's what I was told 

Aye I understand that you were merely passing info along and it's not against you personally - I'm just pointing out that the info is simply dead wrong

[BXTR]

We don’t buy much from Blackwire but I admit, the couple times I have needed help from them, they’ve gone above and beyond

There is more to this story than what’s being told I’m sure

I hope that the full story comes out rather than Blackwire caving to pressure just to make the problem go away

[mstafford388]

We have been using Blackwire for a long time and have literally never had an issue.  The owner is a very hands on and extremely engaged and helpful to the CI community beyond just what his company does.  I find it hard to believe if a dealer approached him with a weird situation like this that there wouldn't be a fair solution. 

[wnpublic]

16 hours ago, Cyknight said:

Aye I understand that you were merely passing info along and it's not against you personally - I'm just pointing out that the info is simply dead wrong

"Nothing personal, you just don't know what the F$%@ you are talking about.  But don't take it personally."

This forum is the best.