Cyknight Posted October 1, 2022 Share Posted October 1, 2022 On 9/30/2022 at 5:42 AM, therockhr said: There is precedence for them leaving hardware on an old revision and it still functioning in new systems. Again, you can't compare the i/o extender to a system controller. If you're talking about the old speaker point... same thing. If you're talking about the old screens still working for some time...well that was never supported and a back door that is no longer working either. If you're talking about a controller being able to run as a secondary unit... then we're back to the part that the architecture of the HC series is completely different, and the relative level of effort/cost to support a 'weaker' controller (HC300/500) as a sub controller within the same basic architecture is much different than trying to do so under a new and dufferent architecture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therockhr Posted October 1, 2022 Share Posted October 1, 2022 7 minutes ago, Cyknight said: Again, you can't compare the i/o extender to a system controller. If you're talking about the old speaker point... same thing. If you're talking about the old screens still working for some time...well that was never supported and a back door that is no longer working either. If you're talking about a controller being able to run as a secondary unit... then we're back to the part that the architecture of the HC series is completely different, and the relative level of effort/cost to support a 'weaker' controller (HC300/500) as a sub controller within the same basic architecture is much different than trying to do so under a new and dufferent architecture. What processor and OS is the IO extender running (v1 and v2)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topspin14m Posted October 1, 2022 Share Posted October 1, 2022 Back to questions about the update that don't involve hardware -- My light icons seem to not poll correctly -- they get stuck on a color and don't change when I change the color. I'm using Ketra. Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therockhr Posted October 1, 2022 Share Posted October 1, 2022 1 hour ago, Cyknight said: Again, you can't compare the i/o extender to a system controller. If you're talking about the old speaker point... same thing. If you're talking about the old screens still working for some time...well that was never supported and a back door that is no longer working either. If you're talking about a controller being able to run as a secondary unit... then we're back to the part that the architecture of the HC series is completely different, and the relative level of effort/cost to support a 'weaker' controller (HC300/500) as a sub controller within the same basic architecture is much different than trying to do so under a new and dufferent architecture. Ok I will eat some crow here... Just got on my IO extender (v1) and looked around since no one would say what processor was in there. Looks like its an ARM based processor as opposed to the intel based processors that the HC800 uses. I assumed that the IO extender used the intel processor as well (I assume the v2 IO extender has an ARM processor as well). With that being the case, it makes more sense to go ahead and EOL that line of intel processors. Could it technically be kept alive for IO only? Of course, but it doesnt make sense to keep that intel based systems around just for that (even though the EA controllers are all Intel Atom based as well). Edit: it looks like the HC-250 is ARM based and not Intel. The HC-250 is probably very similar in architecture as the IO extender. Go figure. Neo1738 and South Africa C4 user 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amr Posted October 1, 2022 Share Posted October 1, 2022 3 hours ago, therockhr said: Ok I will eat some crow here... Just got on my IO extender (v1) and looked around since no one would say what processor was in there. Looks like its an ARM based processor as opposed to the intel based processors that the HC800 uses. I assumed that the IO extender used the intel processor as well (I assume the v2 IO extender has an ARM processor as well). With that being the case, it makes more sense to go ahead and EOL that line of intel processors. Could it technically be kept alive for IO only? Of course, but it doesnt make sense to keep that intel based systems around just for that (even though the EA controllers are all Intel Atom based as well). Edit: it looks like the HC-250 is ARM based and not Intel. The HC-250 is probably very similar in architecture as the IO extender. Go figure. I hear you and I understand your frustration but they toke the decision of EOSL for the HC series and they will not touch it, yes they could have made a driver to keep it at 3.3 and use it as IO but there is an IO device already and they will not repurpose it just because a couple of hundred people wants this, so there is no point in debating and discussing something that will never be done by C4 no matter how long or how loud some voices are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdcllc Posted October 1, 2022 Share Posted October 1, 2022 2 hours ago, therockhr said: Ok I will eat some crow here... IMHO no need to eat crow. And thanks for the information. I think it would be nice if C4 could change the product definition of an HC800 to extend some part of its life, and like all technologists I believe with enough time and money it could be done. But I have faith in C4 that they are making a good business decision - for us as well as for themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted October 2, 2022 Share Posted October 2, 2022 16 hours ago, cdcllc said: I believe with enough time and money it could be done Sure - and it'd be cheaper all around to just get an i/o extender or a Core.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wnpublic Posted October 2, 2022 Share Posted October 2, 2022 16 minutes ago, Cyknight said: Sure - and it'd be cheaper all around to just get an i/o extender or a Core.... Yeah, just give SnapOne their money! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Leeds UK Posted October 2, 2022 Share Posted October 2, 2022 Can understand the HC800 coming to end of life ~ however that is powerful unit to go onto the 2nd hand market gives the DIY market a good controller that runs 3.3 OS My nephew is running a HC250 and already callled me asking if he can have HC800 Downside with old kit, has no 2nd value and let’s people “experiment” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted October 2, 2022 Share Posted October 2, 2022 Just now, Gary Leeds UK said: Can understand the HC800 coming to end of life ~ however that is powerful unit to go onto the 2nd hand market gives the DIY market Expect there is no such thing as the control4 diy market... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Leeds UK Posted October 2, 2022 Share Posted October 2, 2022 Just now, msgreenf said: Expect there is no such thing as the control4 diy market... Mitch ~ think you have your head in the sand on that one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted October 2, 2022 Share Posted October 2, 2022 Just now, Gary Leeds UK said: Mitch ~ think you have your head in the sand on that one No. I don't. If you're talking about the people that illegally crack the software as a market, I would not define it that way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therockhr Posted October 2, 2022 Share Posted October 2, 2022 1 hour ago, Gary Leeds UK said: Can understand the HC800 coming to end of life ~ however that is powerful unit to go onto the 2nd hand market gives the DIY market a good controller that runs 3.3 OS My nephew is running a HC250 and already callled me asking if he can have HC800 Downside with old kit, has no 2nd value and let’s people “experiment” I remember the guy with the goatee on here who said he worked for control4 said that the HC800 was more powerful than the EA5 if you were just running a project and not using the integrated audio. Don’t know if that is true but both controllers use an intel atom processor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 6 hours ago, therockhr said: I remember the guy with the goatee on here who said he worked for control4 said that the HC800 was more powerful than the EA5 if you were just running a project and not using the integrated audio. The HC800 can not run an OS3.x Navigator. Android sucks up a lot of resources. Otherwise they're pretty comparable. The EAs are not a huge CPU jump over the HC800. The HC800 was (and still is, for older projects) a great controller, but at some point, it will EOL like everything else, when the cost to maintain builds and other old code for it are not worth it (which, for the record, is almost always before 2 generations of new controllers have been released). Also, regardless of processing power, the HC800's audio outputs are not Hi-Res audio compatible, and the CoreX controllers have even better audio output specs than the EaX controllers, and more audio outputs per model. It can't do Navigator, has degraded audio outputs, and is a *lot* of power draw for 4 contacts/relays and some serial + IR outs... It's soon going to be time for the HC800 to 'die' (I say that not having *any* knowledge of Snap One's timeline for deprecating the HC800). RyanE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 1 minute ago, RyanE said: It's soon going to be time for the HC800 to 'die' (I say that not having *any* knowledge of Snap One's timeline for deprecating the HC800). LOL. I didn't even realize that it was gone in 3.3.1. To be fair, my brain is a bit fried post-CEDIA. RyanE Neo1738 and Andrew luecke 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therockhr Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 12 hours ago, RyanE said: The HC800 can not run an OS3.x Navigator. Android sucks up a lot of resources. Otherwise they're pretty comparable. The EAs are not a huge CPU jump over the HC800. The HC800 was (and still is, for older projects) a great controller, but at some point, it will EOL like everything else, when the cost to maintain builds and other old code for it are not worth it (which, for the record, is almost always before 2 generations of new controllers have been released). Also, regardless of processing power, the HC800's audio outputs are not Hi-Res audio compatible, and the CoreX controllers have even better audio output specs than the EaX controllers, and more audio outputs per model. It can't do Navigator, has degraded audio outputs, and is a *lot* of power draw for 4 contacts/relays and some serial + IR outs... It's soon going to be time for the HC800 to 'die' (I say that not having *any* knowledge of Snap One's timeline for deprecating the HC800). RyanE Thanks for the info. Is Android on the controllers only for the on screen display? If you all were looking to sunset something, the OSD seems a good one to go after especially with those new Halo remotes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 5 hours ago, therockhr said: Is Android on the controllers only for the on screen display? If you all were looking to sunset something, the OSD seems a good one to go after especially with those new Halo remotes. In later OS versions, Android is not used for the OSD. I don't know exactly which version. In any case if you aren't using the OSD output of a controller, you can disable the 'navigator' process on the controller. RyanE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therockhr Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 5 hours ago, RyanE said: In later OS versions, Android is not used for the OSD. I don't know exactly which version. In any case if you aren't using the OSD output of a controller, you can disable the 'navigator' process on the controller. RyanE What is Android being used for then if not for the OSD? is it only on HC800? Sorry. I am a little confused by "The HC800 can not run an OS3.x Navigator. Android sucks up a lot of resources." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew luecke Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 (edited) deleted Edited October 4, 2022 by Andrew luecke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHA Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 12 hours ago, therockhr said: What is Android being used for then if not for the OSD? is it only on HC800? Sorry. I am a little confused by "The HC800 can not run an OS3.x Navigator. Android sucks up a lot of resources." The HC controllers are Adobe flash based for the OSD, which was dropped altogether in OS3. EA controllers are using android for the OSD and the Core controllers are now running something different which we don’t know what it is. therockhr 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therockhr Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 7 minutes ago, appliedautomation said: The HC controllers are Adobe flash based for the OSD, which was dropped altogether in OS3. EA controllers are using android for the OSD and the Core controllers are now running something different which we don’t know what it is. Thanks for the info. That cleared it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niall Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 On 10/2/2022 at 7:03 PM, msgreenf said: No. I don't. If you're talking about the people that illegally crack the software as a market, I would not define it that way It was illegal before 2010, not any more though. https://www.wired.com/images_blogs/threatlevel/2010/07/dmcaexemps.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 1 hour ago, niall said: It was illegal before 2010, not any more though. https://www.wired.com/images_blogs/threatlevel/2010/07/dmcaexemps.pdf I’m pretty sure that isn’t what the DMCA means..its not free rain to bypass security and violate ELAs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niall Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 1 minute ago, msgreenf said: I’m pretty sure that isn’t what the DMCA means..its not free rain to bypass security and violate ELAs It's legal to "Jailbreak" your iPhone, Xbox, Playstation, etc etc so it's going to be the same with Control4.https://www.wired.com/2010/07/feds-ok-iphone-jailbreaking/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble123 Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 20 minutes ago, niall said: It's legal to "Jailbreak" your iPhone, Xbox, Playstation, etc etc so it's going to be the same with Control4.https://www.wired.com/2010/07/feds-ok-iphone-jailbreaking/ Im with Niall on this one sorry. Certainly not illegal. I remember a while ago this came up in a popular discord forum and all was explained. ATA, do you not think Snap AV or Control4 would actually do something to enforce this if it was? 1000's of people are 'jailbreaking' and have been for years quite happily. They allow 'jailbreakers' to pay for services like 4Sight also. Yes, people dont get the skills of a dealer to program the systems but over time people can get just as good, if not better than some dealers. niall 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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