HRT

I miss the # key..

Yes, metrics are tracked regarding On-Screen usage (when selected as current device).
Control4 does base decisions on usage metrics, as well as partner and customer feedback, and a lot of thought goes into deciding what gets included in new products.
RyanE

Are the metrics you are using for the on screen projects that have it bound, or actual usage of the on screen in systems? I've done many take over jobs were the previous dealer sold 250's and ea1s for every TV and the client never once used it (didn't quite understand at the time if they would or what they were buying). I personally haven't used it as part of a design since the days when you could only schedule a thermostat from the OSD or a C4 Touchscreen.

This has been an on going issue for over a month with random channels. I know another dealer brought up no shoes radio didn't work on a private group and I was having problems with indie 1.0 channel 714. I went through and a bunch weren't working I don't use. indie 1.0 started working again for me recently.

Is indoor plumbing being lapped by pissing in the woods?

While I don't disagree there are plenty of dealers who jump to quickly to the ask you dealer, the we can design and create a system for you over text without knowing anything about the house is also pretty useless. There seams to be a heavy user base here that think the majority of dealers are bad and only a handful are good when in reality its the opposite and or most guys get the bad dealer when they purely are looking for the cheapest quote.
most of these new to control4 posts are sincere and are homeowners honestly looking for feedback/understanding/confidence. This one doesn't pass the smell test by any means. While I am sure there are dealers willing to install/program stuff they didn't spec or wire, multiple? If he talked to multiple why did he not ask them any of these questions? Why no get a quote from a dealer before deciding to buy it all on your own (probably because all the dealers he talked to knew he wasn't going to buy from them so they didn't give him a shopping list). Which explains why he is asking the public to recommend not just how to design it all, but model numbers so they can slowly wait for the perfect used price on ebay for each item. Just in an initial consult with a dealer a dealer would have told him to tidal is native and spotify is spotify connect and is ok. To me based on my intuition this guy hasn't talked to any dealers, is a DIY enthusiast and wants to step up to a better system, plans to buy everything himself, install everything himself, and eventual pay an remote programmer to set it all up for him (being generous on this one). WHICH IS FINE if that's what he wants to do, but most dealers will respond accordingly and defend their means of work asking him to discuss this with a dealer and not offer help.

This is what happens when an end-user tries to design their own system before understanding what they need/want.

I want to chime in on this.
Control4 asked us to attend a meeting at ISE last year with their senior VPs.  In summary they told us (and also every other major Control4 driver developer) to stop reverse engineering APIs and to provide them with the details of the systems we reverse engineered so that they can assist us with creating a relationship with that particular company to stop the API from breaking in the future.
In short there were a few 3rd party drivers out in the wild that broke and caused Control4 alot of headaches.  Not sure if it was just customers complaining or legal issues but regardless it was enough for them to warn all the major 3rd party developers formally.  In fact we were all reminded about the agreements we signed with Control4.
As such our business practices changed to not develop any driver that contains reverse engineered code or if we do reverse engineer it we would create a partnership with the company to ensure that the APIs do not break and they understood that we were using them.
By partnering with these companies we ensure that there is no disruption to the home owners Control4 experience.
A good example of this is an upcoming driver we are about to release in the next week or so (we partnered with a company to do this).  Here is a sneak peak.

Also to add to this the economics of driver development are like any other piece of software.  You have expenses (Employee salaries, computers, software, office space, etc) that need to be paid and as such have a minimum rate to ensure that what you are building is profitable.  Some drivers are cheaper as they are less time / resource intensive and others will require muliple programmers, graphics designers, etc to contribute for the project.  As such one off projects are definately cost prohibited.  We have had customers pay us for custom development and they have justified it as the money they save on not buying an alternative product (eg a blind in the case i am thinking of) is enough to warrant commissioning the project.
Having said all of that the majority of people who contract us nowadays are manufacturers and we are finding that we are doing less of our own IP and more contracted work.  You can find the majority of these contracted (and free drivers) via our website (http://www.chowmainsoft.com) with some others being certified (with SDDP implemented) and available via the online Control4 database.
We do however still invest into passion projects where we see gaps in the solutions and we find a product that will fill that gap.  There are actually a ton of passion projects i want to complete but unfortunately contracts come first.  Hopefully now that we have 3 inhouse Control4 developers we will complete more of these passion projects but regardless you will see more output from us for Control4.

that is exactly what c4 doesn't want from a customer experience stand point.  open source it, api's change, and your system stops working.  that is not a luxury experience C4 wants to provide to the end user.  There are open source home automation systems if that is the desire of the end user.

If the Ring announcements are intermittent then something is setup incorrectly.  

You can have an experience button called auto snow melt. which on could turn a variable true and when off false. Set up scheduled events for on (4am) off (whatever time). Then under the 4am scheduled event if the variable is true turn on heater. At the off time turn heater off and reset variable to false so you will have to turn it back on if you want it to work the next morning. Having the time dynamic is a little harder, unless you have a weather driver that you could program off of the forecast. I am not aware of one, but if you had one you could do a number variable with each number being equal to an hour in middle of the night. So if forecast has snow starting at 3am you can make that 1 on the variable to start warming at 1am. Then make scheduled events for each hour checking first the variable that auto timer is on, then nest the is equal to that time and if so turn on heater.
I'd personally just have the auto button to start at 4am since that's probably enough time to melt the snow even if it started at 1am or so. 
 

There’s always more to the story.
 

I spent a few years meeting with hundreds of dealers and thousands of programmers and not once had this complaint, and I was the guy programmers would complain to so if it was going to come up it would have.  Sure, guys forgot to nest on the if statement, but nobody every complained about how that process happened.  Not a knock on you or your opinion on the matter, just saying as a whole people don't seem to think it's an issue, so change is highly unlikely. 

You should be working directly with your dealer of choice on your system design, not relying on random forum users' expertise. There is no 1 "right" way to do a C4 system. There are always many options, and experience is what will tell you which is better in your specific situation.
I suggest, now that you apparently have interviewed a few dealers, is to pick one and sit down with them and hammer out a system design. Sounds like you want to be involved and that's great - but you will get a much better end product if you partner with your dealer, vs expecting them to work magic on equipment you sourced...somewhere...that they had no say in. 

I don’t see the logic in doing this.  What are you trying to do and why?

Yeah, I meant rather than using the custom buttons on the remote just use the app/neeo/touchscreen and use the wake/sleep agent. Or program the . .. ... to the agent, although I know am not sure if he meant the . .. .. buttons on custom button agent.
You are right there is no way to see the wake/sleep agent on the 250/260.
 

Pretty sure there is no way to accomplish this remotely. Was in a similar situation a few weeks ago, and tech support didn't have a way so I don't think you will be able to.

What's funny or sad whichever way you want to look at it is those buttons have never been needed in a system since the proxy came out! I guess one could argue for the CC button for the occasional use (95% of cable/sat boxes this is done through the menus and not by a command), but having the input button basically defeats the whole purpose of a control system/universal remote.
 

Nope. C4, just like many many (damn near everyone) other manufacturers provides extra incentives for moving boxes.

I’m curious what you do for a living that allows you to obviously be financially secure enough to drop 6 figures on HA and obviously much more on a house but you think 5-7% margins are realistic and that you have basically no idea how the manufacturer dealer relationship works
No one, and i mean no one invests time and money to become a dealer of any product to give it away.

Now to explain why it’s a dealer model and not a diy model - this is for everyone that doesn’t understand.
It’s hard enough to support dealers that actually understand the design, installation and programming of the systems.
If i call it’s a real issue and quite often a bug now a days.
There are a lot of dealers to support.
NOW if it was a diy model, support agents would have to triple or more as they would have many more calls from individuals that are clueless. Don’t believe me, no problem. Look no further than harmony killing their remote line because they lost millions a year on support.
If that POS product is loosing that much on something that is extremely limited what do you think would happen to a product that is actually capable.

Anyone can come up a argument about how they are “right” but the reality is there is a reason why there are diy setups vs. professional.
If you want to have complete control and feel as if your getting the best deal possible go look at Samsung smartthings.
If you want a more polished solution that is far more capable with great support than it’s time to understand this is the model in place and move on.

Sometimes i think this is dumbest group of smart people around.
It’s ok for the end user to make a great living but it’s not ok for the integrator to make a modest living? Gee thanks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Too expensive don't buy it......😢
 

According to USDA Market News Reports, the average retail mark-up on a head of iceberg lettuce in major US cities is 217%.
 
I’m really really sorry, I was curious after reading that. 

So where are you getting your % from?
You can complain about margins all you want, but that won't change a thing - new equipment, except maybe what can be scrounged here and there, is going to come from a dealer, who will charge the prices as they are.
Some may give a small discount on large orders, there is some wiggle room here and there, but Control4 determines to MSRP, and dealers are more or less locked into using those numbers.
There IS no 'retail store' or 'wholesale' available for Control4.
You are free to dislike that model or not - but turning around in circles on here won't do you much good.
What secret dealer only pricing? Go find the actual dealer/retailer (let alone distributor) cost of things out there. Oh I don't know, for a head of lettuce?
Have fun.
This is you only true shot, assuming it's for your own use.
If you're doing this as a 'developer' that wants to put it inot houses to sell, no self-respecting dealer will want to do it with second hand/otherwise procured gear BECAUSE ITS THEIR NAME ON THE LINE.
Please provide me a list of what you thing the margin is on the building materials you buy. I could use another laugh and a half.

Good point, the dealer backs the products they recommend and sell (and they have many too chose from). Nothing wrong at all with a technically competent customer taking on some or all of that decision making process. Caveat emptor.

Nothing against you wanting to get gear for cheap. Who doesn’t want that? You’ll just have to put in the time negotiating and comparing dealer’s prices against each other. 
 
I do however have to roll my eyes at the ‘marginal’ comment. I mean really? Don’t start commenting how you think a business model should be structured, then make a comment like that. No expense is ‘marginal’ when you run a business. 
Overhead? Insurance? Training? Employees? Tools? Software? K-Cups? Pens? TeamViewer license?
Marginal!
Again, you wanna fish for someone to sell you gear on the cheap, go for it, I’d do the same. As others have said, it’s been done with great results. Just leave it at that then, no need to wow us with your business acumen and percent signs.