Do NOT buy from BLACKWIRE

[Cyknight]

52 minutes ago, wnpublic said:

"Nothing personal, you just don't know what the F$%@ you are talking about.  But don't take it personally."

This forum is the best.

You're soooo intent on reading things into everything... just sad.

[wnpublic]

30 minutes ago, Cyknight said:

You're soooo intent on reading things into everything... just sad.

I love that you can’t help yourself. 

[Cyknight]

49 minutes ago, wnpublic said:

I love that you can’t help yourself. 

Another 'see I'm always right post because if he posts it's proving my point, if he doesn't he's proving my point' post? So cute.

I'll say it again: Vitium non Culpa

[wnpublic]

24 minutes ago, Cyknight said:

Another 'see I'm always right post because if he posts it's proving my point, if he doesn't he's proving my point' post? So cute.

I'll say it again: Vitium non Culpa

Sure, but what are you doing in THIS thread?  Someone has said something that impugns the honor of C4 over here:  

 

better get over there and straighten em out. Too funny. 

[Köhler Medientechnik]

hey guys - peace... 

[fleon]

On 11/5/2021 at 10:15 AM, RAV said:

The software was installed on the processor, transaction complete.
If a new processor is purchased, the software moves to it, automatically authenticated.
If a processor fails, a backup file restores software purchased, automatically.

Where's the issue?

You received what you paid for, and no one is taking it away because of a ghosted dealer.
If you add, say additional Shelly units, a different dealer can do so without being a Blackwire dealer or changes to license etc.
Why does who purchased the license, or who's account it's credited to matter?

The only future fault, is if ghost dealer decides to revoke the license, or gets hacked in some way and someone else messes with it.
So, Blackwire, in my opinion, should attempt to reach ghost, and failing to do so, lock out their account from future changes, thus protecting the integrity of the licensing system, and in so doing, also protecting the end users.

 

 

Um.  No.  The software does not get automatically authenticated.  I don't have a working driver. One that I have paid for.  You don't know what you are talking about here, sorry. 

[Neo1738]

If he paid his dealer for the driver I think he deserves to keep it from project to project. Last time you upgraded your phone did you pay for all the apps again or did they carry over?! If his dealer paid for them but installed them on his project than I can see the need to purchase them again/1st time for the end user. In this case I think Blackwire is doing a disservice by not having the drivers bound to the project like other driver developers. 

[Control4Savant]

Stop using random analogies, they don't makes sense. What someone had to do with their phone has nothing to do with a managed automation system. Direct to hardware license assignments aren't anything new. Your dealer should explain the potential cots and risks associated with using 3rd party drivers.

[msgreenf]

you guys don't understand how Blackwire Driver Manager works.  It's really no different then DriverCentral at the end of the day.  They have a controller change process just like DriverCentral.  But both processes (driverCentral and Blackwire) require the original selling dealer to be involved...you all can keep speculating on how it works but it's not accurate

[Neo1738]

12 minutes ago, Control4Savant said:

Stop using random analogies, they don't makes sense. What someone had to do with their phone has nothing to do with a managed automation system. Direct to hardware license assignments aren't anything new. Your dealer should explain the potential cots and risks associated with using 3rd party drivers.

Point is that is how it should work and with technology we have these days it is doable. As @msgreenf said it can be transfered but only by original dealer. Is there a reason a driver manager can't be written to attach to a project and not to the dealer of record other than that's how they want it to go? Not saying how it currently works I know that but why can't it work like a phone and attach to the project. 

[-defunct-]

47 minutes ago, Neo1738 said:

If he paid his dealer for the driver I think he deserves to keep it from project to project. Last time you upgraded your phone did you pay for all the apps again or did they carry over?! If his dealer paid for them but installed them on his project than I can see the need to purchase them again/1st time for the end user. In this case I think Blackwire is doing a disservice by not having the drivers bound to the project like other driver developers. 

A phone is intended to be sold with an end user license.

This is more or less like buying a software plugin for an application through a consulting company.

[msgreenf]

25 minutes ago, Neo1738 said:

Point is that is how it should work and with technology we have these days it is doable. As @msgreenf said it can be transfered but only by original dealer. Is there a reason a driver manager can't be written to attach to a project and not to the dealer of record other than that's how they want it to go? Not saying how it currently works I know that but why can't it work like a phone and attach to the project. 

Anything can be done but it's all a matter of how licenses are handled by the markets

[-defunct-]

26 minutes ago, Neo1738 said:

Point is that is how it should work and with technology we have these days it is doable. As @msgreenf said it can be transfered but only by original dealer. Is there a reason a driver manager can't be written to attach to a project and not to the dealer of record other than that's how they want it to go? Not saying how it currently works I know that but why can't it work like a phone and attach to the project. 

How it 'should' work is matter of opinion.

How it does work, is not the way that is desired by the original poster, nor many in this thread.

It is what it is. If the dealer model doesn't jive, then the wrong system was bought.

[Köhler Medientechnik]

36 minutes ago, Neo1738 said:

Point is that is how it should work and with technology we have these days it is doable. As @msgreenf said it can be transfered but only by original dealer. Is there a reason a driver manager can't be written to attach to a project and not to the dealer of record other than that's how they want it to go? Not saying how it currently works I know that but why can't it work like a phone and attach to the project. 

After all, there´s some procurement and license management to be done by the dealer.
The dealer is the customer in the portal, purchases the license and then assigns to the endusers (his clients) project. The dealer is doing this for multiple endusers.

That´s how the mechanism works - the dealer´s an essential part of the process. And this is nothing new -  it works this way in many other businesses as well. (perhaps besides the license piece)

[therockhr]

8 minutes ago, Dunamivora said:

How it 'should' work is matter of opinion.

How it does work, is not the way that is desired by the original poster, nor many in this thread.

It is what it is. If the dealer model doesn't jive, then the wrong system was bought.

Saying "it is what it is" for a business trying to fleece someone out of extra money for something they already bought is garbage. 

[RAV]

9 hours ago, fleon said:

Um.  No.  The software does not get automatically authenticated.  I don't have a working driver. One that I have paid for.  You don't know what you are talking about here, sorry. 

Thank you for the clarification.
This is the info that I was missing.

The description was that it was automatic.
But you're saying it wasn't.
So, that being the situation, I now understand the problem.

[-defunct-]

20 minutes ago, therockhr said:

Saying "it is what it is" for a business trying to fleece someone out of extra money for something they already bought is garbage. 

There is probably a lot more to the story that is unsaid, but from what has been said, it would work normal if the original dealer existed and could transfer the license. This would be a leftover license agreement that the old dealer should have dealt with before closing down, but must have not cared enough to do so.

Blackwire has rules on their licensing. I know their policies changed within the last couple years because it is not cheap to maintain drivers across software and hardware releases.

OS3 had a major change for drivers and required all the 3rd party developers to update their primary drivers.

Likely will not be the last time that occurs.

[-defunct-]

I'm honestly surprised some driver developers  and dealers don't charge a monthly fee for ongoing support.

[Kevin L]

Hey Everyone - Thank you for the positive comments about Blackwire and the hard work we try to accomplish in this industry.

I did not reply to this post as I was waiting for responses from our customers. We have a policy at Blackwire that prohibits transferring license between dealerships without approval from the original servicing dealer as outlined in our terms of service. This policy is in place to protect our customers (dealers) from waisting their valuable time in the field troubleshooting something they don’t have full access to. This policy wasn’t born out of thin air, it was implemented after many discussions and support calls with our dealers.

We did receive a support ticket from a dealer who requested a transfer of all licenses in a project to his account. We denied this based on our policy.

Shortly after our response, the owner of the system called our office with an extremely aggressive attitude and choice language for our support team. We are a B2B company and only work with dealers, however the ticket was escalated and on Friday, while on vacation, I personally reached out to the dealer who contacted us and asked for all the licenses in the project they needed transferred. As of this post we have not heard back. Instead, I was able to make contact with the original purchasing dealer for one of the most recent drivers (this project has multiple drivers purchased through multiple dealers further complicating the issue) and he was able to get the project updated with the new controller for the driver he originally installed. 

[wnpublic]

1 hour ago, Kevin L said:

 This policy is in place to protect our customers (dealers) from waisting [sic] their valuable time in the field troubleshooting something they don’t have full access to.

...

Instead, I was able to make contact with the original purchasing dealer for one of the most recent drivers (this project has multiple drivers purchased through multiple dealers further complicating the issue)

These "problems" are both consequences of your policy - not its justification.  Neither exists if the policy is different, e.g., license goes with the project.

[cdcllc]

And then another weird situation will occur that makes that policy seem unreasonable.  What it takes is what it always takes - 2 reasonable adults at the table working together to figure out an acceptable solution for both parties. 

[Cyknight]

4 hours ago, wnpublic said:

These "problems" are both consequences of your policy - not its justification.  Neither exists if the policy is different, e.g., license goes with the project.

Problem is the 'project' is too volatile to associate anything with - you could create a 'project' with licensed drivers then load on on every controller, then build the true project with all these license 'active'.

What you probably mean is that the driver is based on the 'account', but even then, is that flawless? So now the house is taken over, project is re-registered to a new account ... and all licenses are now invalid, stopping lighting, blind control and many other things.

 I don't think it would be a viable option over controller MAC to tie a license to for 3rd party developers.

[ejn1]

This thread has been very educational for any end user buying a 3P driver.   Do some research what you really own, who owns it,  how will you be able to move it around later, etc.      It's clear that the end user is not viewed as the customer in this example so some considerations to ponder.    I do get amazed when the channel (eg dealer) is discussed as the customer as it's not what I see in my business.

[Cyknight]

22 minutes ago, ejn1 said:

This thread has been very educational for any end user buying a 3P driver. ... It's clear that the end user is not viewed as the customer in this example so some considerations to ponder.    I do get amazed when the channel (eg dealer) is discussed as the customer as it's not what I see in my business.

3rd party driver distributors should be viewed as just that - distributors.

In general a distributor also doesn't have 'end-users' as clients, only authorized resellers.

 

[Freethrow14]

Hello,

As a relatively new C4 customer I’ve found this discussion to be informative. I must admit I’m constantly searching the web looking at ways to better integrate my home/programming ideas etc. (I’m trying to learn Composer HE).  I was recently looking to add some 3rd party drivers to my system but now realize it’s a little more complicated the I would ever have realized. I will have to do more homework.