New Halo and Halo Touch Remotes

[Andrew luecke]

11 hours ago, crash1977mtl said:

The only other complaint is that I find the responsiveness not to not as good as the zigbee remotes. Even scrolling to change rooms is slower then you would expect for a brand new product.

 

as for the buttons, it’s all muscle memory. I get that things change , but it’s not like they had compelling reasons to move the back/cancel/ prev buttons . This I can live with , but it’s not a change I think lots of people were asking for.

 

 

9 hours ago, crash1977mtl said:

I would be thrilled with 3 or 4 days. I’m not exaggerating when I say the remotes are lasting approx 12 hours. This is without using them, sitting on the couch within 20 feet of a wifi access point.

I can’t wait for all the apologist dealers out there to try and convince their customers this is normal behaviour.

 

 

Have you spoken to your dealer about this?

I work for a driver developer, and used to be an integrator. In the past as an integrator, we regularly came across bad network setups (at least 10%-30% of home networks, but probably much higher) which caused subtle issues (mainly network loops caused by Sonos at the time, but other issues too). Often the customers weren't even aware the issues existed. In the case of UAPSD (or the issues with udp broadcasts and Orbi) as an example the issues can be subtle

As driver developers, I still come across poorly operating controllers occasionally (and it can be subtle). Sometimes caused by other vendors drivers, sometimes by known bad drivers, (ping) or old drivers where the issue was fixed. We spent a huge amount of time adding comprehensive back end diagnostics for this reason to our drivers (to determine if the controller drivers are likely at fault). And we caught a lot of controllers with issues (and as a bonus, it helped us greatly optimise many of our drivers). Things like this could also be causing issues (or underpowered controllers).

So for that reason, definitely discuss with your integrator, as it seems many people don't seem to be reporting the same battery life issues as yourself (again haven't tested), and it's possible there are other issues on your system causing issues too.

Keep in mind, I don't have a halo myself to test with. So this is just some thoughts.

[jimbones]

 

@crash1977mtl you may want to take a look to see if Multicast Enhancement is enabled on your wifi network. If enabled, it causes your network to constantly ping the remotes thus draining their battery. Control4 is aware of the issue. Their recommendation at this time is to disable Multicast Enhancement.

Best of luck with troubleshooting! I just unpacked mine and will need to test the Multicast Enhancement as well as I have it enabled for compatibility with other devices.

[penn65000]

1 hour ago, jimbones said:

 

@crash1977mtl you may want to take a look to see if Multicast Enhancement is enabled on your wifi network. If enabled, it causes your network to constantly ping the remotes thus draining their battery. Control4 is aware of the issue. Their recommendation at this time is to disable Multicast Enhancement.

Best of luck with troubleshooting! I just unpacked mine and will need to test the Multicast Enhancement as well as I have it enabled for compatibility with other devices.

This is nuts. They know many have multicast enabled. These remotes should just work without BS tweaking.  So glad I waited on Halo Touch. That said I’m stuck w a bunch of dud Neeos. 

[Andrew luecke]

19 hours ago, penn65000 said:

This is nuts. They know many have multicast enabled. These remotes should just work without BS tweaking.  So glad I waited on Halo Touch. That said I’m stuck w a bunch of dud Neeos. 

It actually makes sense this might cause battery issues theoretically if the remote control is designed to maintain network connection. The way multicast Enhancement works, is that it modifies multicast packets and sends them directly to the device IP's.

Theoretically, normally, a sleeping wifi radio (which is designed to be low power and minimal processing) could ignore any packets which aren't pointed at the device's IP address and leave the device sleeping (if they're the wrong IP and the device is sleeping, or it's sleeping and they're multicast, maybe they wouldn't be important). However, if the multicast packets are modified to use at the IP directly instead (as those multicast or even MDNS packets are now), the device has to assume even multicast is important, and wake up the main processor.

So the theory seems possible.And that would be a network config issue. Definitely wouldn't be Control4's fault. Although, I'm guessing it would only affect them if they subscribe to any Multicast traffic (so if it is an issue, maybe the solution would be for them to unsubscribe from traffic). That being said, the default for Multicast enhancement, is turned off for Unifi (although, I always told people to turn it on).

 

Don't forget, this is a professional Integration product though, and it is the responsibility of your installer to ensure your network is correctly configured for your devices (they would have been caught out by this issue though)

[Ilushka85]

1 hour ago, Andrew luecke said:

It actually makes sense this might cause battery issues. The way multicast Enhancement works, is that it modifies multicast packets and sends them directly to the device IP's.

Theoretically, normally, a sleeping wifi radio (which is designed to be low power and minimal processing) could ignore any packets which aren't pointed at the device's IP address and leave the device sleeping (if they're the wrong IP and the device is sleeping, or it's sleeping and they're multicast, maybe they wouldn't be important). However, if the multicast packets are modified to use at the IP directly instead (as those multicast or even MDNS packets are now), the device has to assume even multicast is important, and wake up the main processor.

So the theory seems possible.And that would be a network config issue. Definitely wouldn't be Control4's fault. Although, I'm guessing it would only affect them if they subscribe to any Multicast traffic (so if it is an issue, maybe the solution would be for them to unsubscribe from traffic). That being said, the default for Multicast enhancement, is turned off for Unifi (although, I always told people to turn it on).

 

Don't forget, this is a professional Integration product though, and it is the responsibility of your installer to ensure your network is correctly configured for your devices (they would have been caught out by this issue though)

 

 

I just created a separate network and moved 1 of my halos to it.  This network has multicast enhancement disabled.  Tomorrow I will take two remotes off the charger and see if battery life drops more significantly on one vs the other.

[Amr]

Currently in my UniFi Network I have everything turned off except:

- UAPSD

- New Device Auto-Link

This is the most stable settings I ever had, took my a while as I have a huge amount of various WiFi devices and to reach this state and eliminates the compatability issues this was it, number of connected devices remained stable and my network became “Excellent” most of the time, Neeo’s lets say are satisfactory, picked up once a week!

[dinom]

Checked again and my Halo lost only 10% or so off the charger over night (about 12 hours).  I don’t have that multicast nor the low power feature enabled on my AP. 

[Elvis]

 Got my Halo and Core1 setup today. The Halo sat on the charging base about 16 hours before I had time to set it up with the new project. Obviously I haven't had it long enough to comment on battery life. Will know more soon on that as the charging base is not adjacent to our normal chairs for watching TV -- it will get left off the charger soon enough. I don't have uAPSD as an option on my WiFi either.

New remote coupled with an entirely new project, so I would assume that impacted the Halo. The project was still being tweaked after the Halo was added. A few hours later and it seems to be responsive and stable.

The screen is nicer than I expected. Not being a touch screen, I was skeptical but it was very easy to read. We never accessed Dish Hopper DVR media directly before because the SR-260 was too hard to read. Now we will use that feature. I do think this media list UI could be better. Since it is not touch screen, I think it could be a lot denser and there needs to be some sort of animation or feedback when scrolling down the list. The only way to see that you have changed episodes is to read the recording date. 

Maybe they are trying to use the same display of the media as will be needed for a the Halo Touch. I'd rather see more with less dead space. I get it for the Touch.

Siri works as advertised. Had to turn Siri off and back on in the AppleTV to make it work. After that, no issues at all. I'll be happy to put that tiny Siri Remote in the drawer.

Very hopeful. I see a lot of potential.

(Display, iOS vs Halo)

[J to the D]

I got my Halo last night and got it up and running. It was used a little and then left on the side overnight. Probably been around 14 hours or so and currently at 82% battery. That would suggest it would easily last two days or so which I think is sufficient. 
 

Overall really impressed so far. Definitely feels more premium than the SR260, I just hope it’s bulletproof and just “works” like the old remotes did. I skipped the Neeo so never experienced the issues with those. 

[Andrew luecke]

On 2/15/2023 at 1:08 AM, crash1977mtl said:

I would be thrilled with 3 or 4 days. I’m not exaggerating when I say the remotes are lasting approx 12 hours. This is without using them, sitting on the couch within 20 feet of a wifi access point.

I can’t wait for all the apologist dealers out there to try and convince their customers this is normal behaviour.

So.. based on all the updated feedback, you definitely should speak to your dealer imho. It sounds like there is 100% something wrong with your wifi/network setup causing issues, or you have issues with your drivers. Other users don't seem to be reporting the same issue

[crash1977mtl]

44 minutes ago, Andrew luecke said:

So.. based on all the updated feedback, you definitely should speak to your dealer imho. It sounds like there is 100% something wrong with your wifi/network setup causing issues, or you have issues with your drivers. Other users don't seem to be reporting the same issue

Let’s see how everyone feels in a few days of use. 

dealer is taking back the remotes , full refund. maybe I got a bad batch of batteries (one remote was completely DOA) but I just think it’s a design flaw. 

My wifi network is rock solid , using higher end technology. I have enabled the settings which no other device on the market needs , nor does Control4 suggest or put in their requirements. This seems to be speculation from this forum that some wifi settings can help the battery life without any confirmation this is supported by the remote.

 

[jimbones]

1 hour ago, crash1977mtl said:

Let’s see how everyone feels in a few days of use. 

dealer is taking back the remotes , full refund. maybe I got a bad batch of batteries (one remote was completely DOA) but I just think it’s a design flaw. 

My wifi network is rock solid , using higher end technology. I have enabled the settings which no other device on the market needs , nor does Control4 suggest or put in their requirements. This seems to be speculation from this forum that some wifi settings can help the battery life without any confirmation this is supported by the remote.

 

Best of luck!

As a note, the wifi issue is not speculation, but is documented by Control4 and the technical support documentation is available to all dealers via the dealer portal. Your own dealer will be able to confirm that.

On a side note, I can confirm the battery drain myself. Saw about 50% drain in 3-4 hours while the remote was off-cradle with multicast enabled. I created a dedicated 2.4Ghz wifi network with multicast disabled and experienced much better battery performance. In fact, I get equivalent or better battery life to our old Neeos, probably due to lack of touch screen and better wifi performance. Speaking of wifi performance... the new wifi chipset is noticeably more stable. Even with a dedicated 2.4Ghz network, the Neeos would constantly have connection issues. But the Halos are rock solid, super snappy and responsive, absolutely no connection issues thus far.

[dinom]

Crash, did you try with multicast disabled and still seeing battery problems?  

[cdcllc]

I received my Halo on February 10th (thanks @chopedogg88!).  Put it on the charger over night and set-up the next morning.  The self install was very easy.  I set up the Halo on a shared SSID at the home.  I love the look, feel and function of the remote.  Looks like only 1 button difference between the SR-260 and Halo - voice button exchanged for info button.  I think all others are there in some form.  The cool thing was I programmed a custom button to toggle lamps in the room on the SR-260 and that was automatically carried over to the Halo in the install process - I expected I would have to re-add that functionality.  I have not yet implemented the voice function (too old of an ATV and haven't addressed Xfinity setup - I know I have IR based control now).

In the 5 days or so I've been using the new Halo, I haven't seen any wifi drops (actually no need to reset anything at all on the remote).  We built our home 5 years ago and our Control4 dealer spec'd Luxul AP's, wifi controller, switches and router.  I've been very happy with the Luxul gear.  Battery life for the Halo seems to be 1.5 - 2 days.  We set up the charger base in an adjoining room roughly 15 steps away - so getting in the habit of putting the Halo on the charger on our way to bed.

My wife and I both love the look and feel of the Halo - far superior to the SR-260 in our opinion - and more than enough offset for shorter batter life - again in our opinion.  All I really need now is for the screen to last 5+ years!

My next project will be working on Xfinity voice integration and probably upgrading ATV to latest / greatest and get voice there as well.

[Double D]

My battery report…

Yesterday I started with the remote on full charge. It was off the charging cradle all day. The remote was used all day (minus about 2 cumulative hours) from 630am until 10pm. Lots of browsing YouTube, some streaming music browsing using the Halo screen, some lighting control. 

The Halo was at about 35% battery when I went to bed. I’m left it off the cradle all night. Today at 630am I was at 31%. Not bad at all. 
 

For reference, my iPhone 13 was also on full charge and was used sporadically all day. I ended up with 10% left by bedtime. I am quite pleased with the Halo battery and overall performance so far. 

[Cyknight]

So far for me, Halo being off dock and sitting idle for about 72 hours, it went to just over 65%. Full day of usage, purposeful constant handling without docking, remote went down to 45% for me.

 

Now, while that is not superb battery life for a remote in general, it's pretty good as far as I'm concerned for a full colour screen wifi remote.

I do NOT expect a remote like this one to last if I don't dock it in the evening (and I'll say again that I HATE docking remotes).

To me PERSONALLY this could NEVER replace something like an SR260 - nor do I think it's meant to by the way - as yes I want remotes to just be able to sit there and be picked up. But for what it is, I'm not bothered by the battery lifespan.

To me, it should last all day when charged without having to charge in between, and not be dead the next morning if I happen to fall asleep on the couch without docking it. It certainly seems to be able to do so.

[paulromi]

Does the Halo need the new Core controller in order to be compatible or will it work fine with the EA3?

[chopedogg88]

Works fine in Ea3 

[Andrew luecke]

1 hour ago, paulromi said:

Does the Halo need the new Core controller in order to be compatible or will it work fine with the EA3?

It uses standard wifi and just needs os 3.3.2. so, EA, CA or core controllers will all work. You simply need to ensure you're using Control4 OS 3.3.2 or later (if not, you need an installer to perform an upgrade and test. If you're still running os 2.x or RGB lights without a color wheel, I'd even recommend they go onsite and replace your drivers with newer ones

If you're running the latest firmware, most people can actually set up the halo themselves without issue and without installer assistance (unless your WiFi network isn't set up correctly, you have buggy drivers or you have network issues)

[Amr]

Can every one please reporting good or bad battery life of Halo to include all data on the footer, some thing like this just to get a grasp of what is the gear driving the behavior

——————————

Controller: EA5

WiFi Network: UniFi UAP-AC-LR

WiFi Parameters: xxx

[Amr]

7 hours ago, Double D said:

My battery report…

Yesterday I started with the remote on full charge. It was off the charging cradle all day. The remote was used all day (minus about 2 cumulative hours) from 630am until 10pm. Lots of browsing YouTube, some streaming music browsing using the Halo screen, some lighting control. 

The Halo was at about 35% battery when I went to bed. I’m left it off the cradle all night. Today at 630am I was at 31%. Not bad at all. 
 

For reference, my iPhone 13 was also on full charge and was used sporadically all day. I ended up with 10% left by bedtime. I am quite pleased with the Halo battery and overall performance so far. 

What is your Controller and WiFi equipment?

[Andrew luecke]

35 minutes ago, Amr said:

Can every one please reporting good or bad battery life of Halo to include all data on the footer, some thing like this just to get a grasp of what is the gear driving the behavior

——————————

Controller: EA5

WiFi Network: UniFi UAP-AC-LR

WiFi Parameters: xxx

Also could be worthwhile mentioning any drivers you're using . In the past, we actually came across some driver issues with the NEEO's

[crash1977mtl]

12 hours ago, dinom said:

Crash, did you try with multicast disabled and still seeing battery problems?  

My TP LINK EAP access points don’t seem to have this feature. I did enable unscheduled power saving. 
 

is there another name this goes by ?

[Double D]

1 hour ago, Amr said:

What is your Controller and WiFi equipment?

EA3.  Pakedge RK1 router with eero WiFi network in bridge mode.

[Cyknight]

2 hours ago, Amr said:

Can every one please reporting good or bad battery life of Halo to include all data on the footer, some thing like this just to get a grasp of what is the gear driving the behavior

——————————

Controller: EA5

WiFi Network: UniFi UAP-AC-LR

WiFi Parameters: xxx

Honestly, I'd go with the bad ones only, and I'd say wifi mainly, and advanced drivers (c4 possible, 3rd party mainly).

Something is clearly off for a few people, which could just be a bad battery (or charger) or something else entirely. I'm testing 7 of them in 5 different projects and so far I've seen no issues. That said, all of them are running some form of pakede or araknis for wifi.